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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    One thing I'm having a hard time figuring out is why the dragon didn't eat V's mate and children first, bind their souls, and then wait for the opportunity to gloat and take off into the planes.

    That way, there would be no chance of V coming up with some way of preventing the deed. Once it's done, it's too late already, and the gloating will be just as fulfilling, presumably.

    Gloating and then acting seems like a big fat invitation to having the plan get interfered with, and since the dragon's had months at her disposal to set this up, it's not like she didn't have ample opportunity to off V's family in the meantime. It's not scruples, obviously .... so why not just do it?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    TSED's Avatar

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    The dragon has possibly been scrying on V all this time as well, and is quite intelligent.


    It may have noticed V's absolute, all-encompassing phobia of failure.


    This chance to inflict the failure of saving V's family will make it far worse than 'merely' going 'haha every one you loved back home is dead and gone forever. Bye.'

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    1) Who says she didnt. (I'm not a republic serial villian Dan, I did it 35 minutes ago...)

    2) She's supremely confident in her ability to do what she' s setting out to do. She knows V can't teleport, and without that there's no way to get back to his family.

    3) Its villian SOP

    4) It makes for a better story and gives the hero an opportunity to do something heroic (or something horrible)

    5) Its crueler. The dragoness has suffered the ultimate wrong (or something close to it) and she's going to one up V on that score so she "wins"

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    imp_fireball's Avatar

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Sometimes when your as smart as a dragon, and the tirades of logic have fallen beneath your footsteps all your life, you feel overcome to gloat even when it might not be appropriate.

    Maybe so you can say, "Oh look, I happen to be gloating at an inopportune time that I have acknowledged is an inopportune time to be gloating and yet I do it anyway to stickler my puny enemies in the eyes, whee! I amuse myself because nobody else is capable of amusing me because I am so witty and awesome and have such a higher challenge rating!"

    Being a dragon only accentuates this. Thus, the will save to resist such a condition is damnable.

    This chance to inflict the failure of saving V's family will make it far worse than 'merely' going 'haha every one you loved back home is dead and gone forever. Bye.'
    Well seeing as killing them right away would technically result in failure to save them regardless, there's no additional damage to be done.

    V is already filled with such a hopeless void that he's taking the 'sell yer soul' route, maybe to reverse time or something if nothing else works.

    Unless of course the dragon is really bent on one-upping and 'winning'.

    And...
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    In which case, the master prankster card would be pulled
    "I sold my soul to devils just in time so that I could stop you from slaughtering my children."

    "Ahaha, but I have already killed your children and them being alive is only an illusion that I have rigged for you through my awesome dragon sorcerory."

    "Ah... but I KNEW you were going to do that and so I rigged an elaborate illusion deploying all senses to make you think you had killed them. My children are in a pocket dimension."

    "But I knew you would create an illusion thus forcing me to create an illusion of your children. Me tricking you into thinking I'd gone after your kids gave me enough time to reroute your pocket dimension with a simple gate. A simple dimension door will take me to your children. Really elf, I had expected more of you."

    "Ah, but I knew you would do this and so I forged a magical barrier that took years to create but in the plane of acceleration, I was able to complete in an immediate action and so my children are now protected by your very gate that you had intended to rerout them to."

    "Ah but I knew you would do that, and that's why me speaking here today is merely an illusion. I had cast dimension door already and so your magical barrier has arrived to late, mwahaha!"

    "Ah but I knew you would try to oust me in that fashion and that's why I had travelled many years back to an age before dragons and before magic or time itself. An age that it also a concealed universe in which magic does not apply and where GMs do not allow dragons. My children are preserved in that setting cryogenically. There is no hope for you dragon!"

    "Ah but I knew you'd do that."

    "You did, you honestly did?"

    "Why yes! That's why I contacted the oracle to acquire this information ahead of time and now your precious children are just waiting to be eaten back at my lair. The 'children' that you cryogenically preserved are mere masses of brainless flesh. Whatever sentience they possessed was uploaded into them via temporal mind transference: A custom spell I invented myself. Mimicking wizards is also an ability of mine. It was acquired from a particularly expensive magic item that I'd found some time ago."

    "Hahaha!"

    "Why do you laugh, elf?"

    "Because I knew you'd do that and that's why my real children have been preserved in infinite receding dimensions. In fact that they are guarded by one another and are blessed by clerics. I consulted divination during my time spent in the plane of acceleration. Several gods will smite any who touches the real ones. The ones you took are clones!"

    "Ah but I knew you'd try to preserve your children in multiple dimensions in conjunction to me casting an illusion to fool you and you initially preserving them in multiple dimensions and that's why I instead killed you in another time line. All thoughts you experienced are merely the past playing itself like the theory of relativity doing a blackflip in layman's terms. Eventually death, a wraith of CR 100 will arrive to take you away."

    "Ah, but I knew you'd kill me in some other time line and that's why I engrained myself in this universe. It's called 'partial dimensional anchor', more powerful than you'd realise and completely protects me from the ravages of an unstable time continuum."

    "Yes, yes, and that's why I have poisoned your soul this past week. No magic can cure it and it affects your soul."

    "Oh yes I knew you'd poison me eventually, but that's why I initially sold my soul in the first place and have been slowing poisoning you for the past ten years. Back then I had used a clairvoyant psion with me to help me discern what would occur at this date. You see I completely foresaw all this."

    "Aha elf! I knew you would and that's why I -"

    *boulder falls on head of the dragon, killing him*

    "Heh, that was only to stall him for the rock. My children and mate are already dead, the fool! What? One must always bounce back, and I've been over it for awhile now."
    Last edited by imp_fireball; 2009-02-15 at 12:54 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    The reasons are two-fold:

    -Plot tension. If the dragon already kills the kiddies, the reader does not speculate their fate. While it is true we would be wondering how V will react, there is more suspense this way.
    -Revenge does not follow a logical pattern. The dragon has revenge on her mind, is obsessed with it, and wants self-satisfaction after her loss. Gloating on V gave her this satisfaction and even though it gives V a chance to strike back her ego has been lifted. And the dragon is demonstratively more powerful than V - what difference would this chance make?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    In other words -- hubris.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    chiasaur11's Avatar

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Plus, she would have V's kid's souls with her.
    If V figured out a way to dispel it, V'd at least manage a pyrhic victory, while this way, V loses everything.
    Remember how I was wishing for the peace of oblivion a minute ago?

    Yeah. That hasn't exactly changed with more knowledge of the situation. -Security Chief Victor Jones, formerly of the UESC Marathon.

    X-Com avatar by BRC. He's good folks.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Because it's crueler to let V suffer the anticipation of what's going to happen.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    To further torture V by letting him feel impotent.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Quote Originally Posted by imp_fireball View Post
    Well seeing as killing them right away would technically result in failure to save them regardless, there's no additional damage to be done.
    Yes there is. Knowing they killed your family doesn't mean you failed - you never had a chance. You never knew ahead of time, so there's no frustration in not doing enough, since you had no idea something needed to be DONE.

    On the other hand, knowing that it's going to happen and not being able to do anything about it is FAR more frustrating for V.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Darc Discordia's Avatar

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Ask yourself: Which is crueler? Informing a power-hungry, mentally unstable wizard that you've just murdered their family? Or informing said wizard that you are going to murder their family, watching them try and fail to do anything to stop you? The first would be a tragic loss, yes. But the second would be even worse- it would make V realize that his/her power could do nothing to save them, that despite his/her best efforts and beliefs in the superior power of magic, that his/her family was destroyed and he/she could do nothing about it.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    I'll go option C- makes the story more interesting...

    Oh look I was right
    Last edited by whatchamacallit; 2009-02-17 at 02:54 PM.
    I Am A: True Neutral Human Rogue (4th Level)
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    http://easydamus.com/character.html

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Ron Miel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnivorous_Bea View Post
    One thing I'm having a hard time figuring out is why the dragon didn't eat V's mate and children first, bind their souls, and then wait for the opportunity to gloat and take off into the planes.

    That way, there would be no chance of V coming up with some way of preventing the deed.

    You just answered your own question

    http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq7

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Querzis's Avatar

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnivorous_Bea View Post
    One thing I'm having a hard time figuring out is why the dragon didn't eat V's mate and children first, bind their souls, and then wait for the opportunity to gloat and take off into the planes.

    That way, there would be no chance of V coming up with some way of preventing the deed. Once it's done, it's too late already, and the gloating will be just as fulfilling, presumably.

    Gloating and then acting seems like a big fat invitation to having the plan get interfered with, and since the dragon's had months at her disposal to set this up, it's not like she didn't have ample opportunity to off V's family in the meantime. It's not scruples, obviously .... so why not just do it?
    What would I feel if a dragon would come to me and tell me he killed my childrens? Anger and disbelief. I woudnt really believe him and I would do absolutely everything in my power to kill him. What would I feel if a dragon told me why and when he would kill my childrens and then make sure I wont be able to stop it no matter how hard I try? Despair. Crushing despair that would probably make me commit suicide.

    Thats why. And by the way:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    You just answered your own question

    http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq7
    Please stop doing this. This part of the FAQ was about D&D abilities and spells. Its not an answer to the people who ask: «why does this character has this motivation» its an answer to the people who ask: «why did this character use this spell or that feat instead of another one». If we woudnt be able to justify the characters motivation easely then it woudnt be a good story and OOTS is a great story. The dragons actions are easely explainable, especially if he know V.
    Last edited by Querzis; 2009-02-17 at 04:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Who says the dragon didnt kill V's kids already?

    If I were an uber-evil ancient black dragon, I would have killed the kids, dropped the gems off at my lair, and then gone after V. I would tell him that I was about to go kill his kids to give him false hope and crush him even more. Then I would go home, contented with a good days work.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    We know they are still alive because we've been shown they are. There is proof its not just a flash back. Not only that but the Dragon says "I am going to" which means it has yet to happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Also I'm pretty sure you're GLaDoS now.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Then there's the theory that the dragon isn't real and all of this is a ploy to convince V to offer his services to the devils. Come to think of it, even if the dragon is real and its threats are real, it might be still a ploy to get V (Qarr either playing a fool or being unaware of the "big" plan).

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Why didn't the dragon just kill V's kids first? Simple: the dragon is a graduate of the SPECTRE School of Arch Villainary, where he was taught by Professor Evil (of the Blofeldian discipline) that you always taunt your victim by explaining your elaborate plan, leaving just enough time for Bond to escape and save the world.

    DUH!
    Cry "Havoc," and let slip the gnomes of war! Or something...

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Quote Originally Posted by quick_comment View Post
    Who says the dragon didnt kill V's kids already?

    If I were an uber-evil ancient black dragon, I would have killed the kids, dropped the gems off at my lair, and then gone after V. I would tell him that I was about to go kill his kids to give him false hope and crush him even more. Then I would go home, contented with a good days work.
    Oh, you'd be such a boring villain.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    [TS] Shadow's Avatar

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Everybody here makes good points, but the Dragon is capable of LYING. She could say "I'm going to kill your kids," when she already has. V won't know the difference, and she loses ANY opportunity of failure.
    The above posts may will contain varying amounts of egotism.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RogueGirl

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    She's doing this for the same reason cats toy with mice before killing them - it's fun in an evil, "I am a more worthy creature than you so you are nothing but my plaything" kind of way. Add a hell of a thirst for vengeance to that, and a healthy dose of sadism, and you've pretty much got Mama Dragon.
    In Pace Requiem.

  22. - Top - End - #22
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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    Quote Originally Posted by [TS] Shadow View Post
    Everybody here makes good points, but the Dragon is capable of LYING. She could say "I'm going to kill your kids," when she already has. V won't know the difference, and she loses ANY opportunity of failure.
    Sure. But it would be very strange for Rich to suddenly write his story this way, when he never has before.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DBear's Avatar

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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    This could all be a Xanatos Gambit by the Kobold Oracle, knowing that the only way for the Snarl to be stopped is to have V attain "ultimate arcane power", and the only way to do that is to have V sell his soul for it, and the only way to get V to do that...
    Thank you Ceika for the avatar

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Why didn't the dragon kill V's children first, then gloat?

    For the dragon to have killed V's children beforehand in order to prevent any chance of V stopping her, she'd need to have acknowledged that V HAD a chance of stopping her. And she seems even more arrogant than Vaarsuvius, with good reason. Having expended his high-level spells, faced with her AMF and being a squishy wizard to boot, Vaarsuvius can threaten her neither physically nor magically.
    In fact, she probably hopes that he'll still find a way to teleport there, just to helplessly watch her finish the job.
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