[4e]Eberron Impatience: Thoughts?

[String]

I've been toying with the idea of doing a 4e Eberron game, and have come across one major obstacle: There is no 4e Eberron Campaign Guide. I'm rather familiar with the setting, and love it so, so I was wondering what you fine folks think would be the major issues I would have to overcome?

So far, my To-do list is:

-Write-up Kalashtar
-Write-up Changeling
-Write-up Dragonmarks
-Write-up Druidic Tradition feats (gatekeeper, children of winter, etc.)

Anything else I might need to worry about?

[RTGoodman]

Depends on the level of the campaign. At low-levels, once you get the things you mentioned done, all that's left would be to come up with some good Channel Divinity feats (probably just for the Sovereign Host), some good racial feats to differentiate certain groups, and either stats for the new weapons (Talenta stuff, Drow stuff, etc.) or at least a list of what weapons people can re-fluff as those weapons. A lot of other non-PC related stuff you can just use pg. 42 of the DMG to figure out (DCs for fighting on top of the Lightning Rail, etc.). Basically, everything would be pretty simple - Changelings could just have stats as a Doppleganger (from the MM), but with the option to take Human racial feats.

For Paragon levels, you'd probably want Paragon Paths for Dragonmarked Houses and other major NPC organizations, and probably new feats. Still nothing major. I'd probably avoid Epic levels completely for now, if you plan on switching to the "real" setting once the books come out, since there could be some inconsistencies depending on how they do the change-over to 4E. Is it gonna just be a change of mechanics and no fluff change, or is it gonna be a major world-changing event like in the Realms?


EDIT: The one thing that could be a problem is Psionics. They're a pretty big thing in the setting, and for now they're completely absent.

[FoE]

Damn, I was just thinking about this earlier today. When is the new Eberron guide coming out?

I know the Forgotten Realms fans complain the setting was raped by 4E (they were bitching about Elminster's power drop or something ), but I think the general philosophy of 4E is much more in tune with Eberron's feel.

[RTGoodman]

Damn, I was just thinking about this earlier today. When is the new Eberron guide coming out?

August, I think? I believe the original goal (or, at least what WotC mentioned) was that they were gonna have FR 4E in August '08 and Eberron a year later or something like that, with teasers that other settings might be coming later.

EDIT: Finally found the Eberron Campaign Guide and Player's Guide. The Campaign Guide comes out in June this year, and the Player's Guide in July.

I know the Forgotten Realms fans complain the setting was raped by 4E (they were bitching about Elminster's power drop or something), but I think the general philosophy of 4E is much more in tune with Eberron's feel.

I think you're right. Go and Google "4E Eberron" and read up on Keith Baker's LiveJournal articles on the subject. The first one is a lot just about how the changes from 3.x to 4E are a lot of things that work REALLY well for the setting in general.

[FoE]

Go and Google "4E Eberron" and read up on Keith Baker's LiveJournal articles on the subject. The first one is a lot just about how the changes from 3.x to 4E are a lot of things that work REALLY well for the setting in general.

I've often thought a lot of the changes made between 3.5E and 4E came because of Eberron (the emphasis on the difference between PCs and NPCs, for example).

Besides that, Baker's comments remind me of something important: OP, there have been some excellent Eberron-related articles published on the DDI. I felt like I could base a campaign around Dolurrh's Dawn alone. And the article on Graywall was pretty good, though the revelation that its residents largely subsist on troll flesh was revolting. (They taste terrible.)

I haven't checked the site in a little while, though.

[skywalker]

I don't think it's worth it. If I were doing it, I'd be starting from scratch (maybe you're not). But by the time I got that stuff written up, as well as anything else that might've come out, and then shown it to the players, and then gotten them on board, and then gotten sheets from everybody and started playing, it would be June and everybody would want to do it by the book anyway.

I guess that wasn't really constructive but I think it's something to consider.

[Inyssius Tor]

-Write-up Kalashtar

Kalashtar are fairly simple, I think. For one thing, you could just use the upcoming Devas; almost-humans with a gift for divine psionic magic, infused with a perpetually reincarnating divine spark fragment of a psionic dream-creature that remembers their past lives? Bonuses to Intelligence and Wisdom? Swap their bonuses to +2 Bluff, +2 Diplomacy, and resist 5 Psychic, and you've got a pretty good approximation.

Or you could use humans. Or alter humans slightly--give them a +2 to attack and damage with psychic powers (overpowered when Psionics come out, but for now this is an awfully specialized advantage); trade out the extra skill training for +2 Bluff and +2 Diplomacy (not quite a fair trade, but I think it compensates for the psychic thing); and trade their extra language for the minor-action per-encounter ability to communicate telepathically with one creature for the rest of the round only (otherwise it kind of steps on every other language-related mechanic in the game, and would be way better than the human's extra language).

-Write-up Changeling

Unless you want a full racial write-up, this has already been done. I honestly can't tell what you would add to the Doppelganger's Monster Manual write-up that isn't already in there.

-Write-up Druidic Tradition feats (gatekeeper, children of winter, etc.)

I can't say much about druids until we can see their powers and feats and magic items. But I think these would be better as simply some extra druid powers. Vermin and cold-related stuff for the Children of Winter, defender-y stuff for the Gatekeepers, and more summoning powers for the Ashbound set; the Wardens of the Wood can just take a combination of the last two as befits their character concepts.

For Greensingers, would it be totally out of line to have a primal-only feat that let you substitute Wis for Cha when using (presumably multiclass-obtained) Fey Pact Warlock powers?

[Starsinger]

I think the druidic traditions would make fine paragon paths.

[RebelRogue]

I've often thought a lot of the changes made between 3.5E and 4E came because of Eberron

I've thought the exact same thing myself. The focal points/style of 4E are in many ways similar to the setting's.

[Morty]

I've thought the exact same thing myself. The focal points/style of 4E are in many ways similar to the setting's.

Are they? I've always thought that 4ed's "points of light" concept is going to be hard to incorporate into Eberron. I might be wrong, though, I don't play it. But from what I know, Eberron goes away from the "good nice races vs. ugly evil races" theme which is even stronger in 4ed than in 3ed.

[Lappy9000]

Are they? I've always thought that 4ed's "points of light" concept is going to be hard to incorporate into Eberron. I might be wrong, though, I don't play it. But from what I know, Eberron goes away from the "good nice races vs. ugly evil races" theme which is even stronger in 4ed than in 3ed.

Points of Light, eh? I always kind of pictured that as the unwritten default of D&D adventuring. I'd say it's certainly the easiest to use without background fluff.

That being said, I doubt it'll be an issue in Eberron, which has a habit of saying, "Take that Greyhawk, I'ma different." Eberron is used to changing all the rules. Although I really hope that Wizards doesn't do like they did in Forgotten Realms where "hey everything's suddenly different now. Awesome, right?"

I wouldn't worry about statting anything. Eberron will probably be out by the time your material would be used, but, if you insist, I'd advise asking the folks on the homebrew forum for help. You'll get something whipped up nice and fast like.

[FoE]

Are they? I've always thought that 4ed's "points of light" concept is going to be hard to incorporate into Eberron. I might be wrong, though, I don't play it.

It's a fairly Crapsack universe to begin with, Mort. Half the setting is war-scorched ruin left over from invasions by Cosmic Horrors/the giant world war that just ended with the destruction of roughly a fifth of a continent.

[hamishspence]

true, but easy train travel across the continent sounds a little atypical of Points of Light. Though many regions of eberron are pretty dark in that sense, the continent as a whole is a bit less so.

[Morty]

Points of Light, eh? I always kind of pictured that as the unwritten default of D&D adventuring. I'd say it's certainly the easiest to use without background fluff.

I've never seen it that way myself.

That being said, I doubt it'll be an issue in Eberron, which has a habit of saying, "Take that Greyhawk, I'ma different." Eberron is used to changing all the rules. Although I really hope that Wizards doesn't do like they did in Forgotten Realms where "hey everything's suddenly different now. Awesome, right?"

Well, that's true.

EDIT: I'd hate it when people edit their posts while I'm responding if I didn't do this myself.

Half the setting is war-scorched ruin left over from invasions by Cosmic Horrors/the giant world war that just ended with the destruction of roughly a fifth of a continent. And there's about two thousand David Xanatos-types pulling the strings of everyone, including you.

Nevertheless, it does seem quite different than the default Points of Light setting from 4ed. The setting itself is rather modern in feel, and airships or trains don't encourage the "small pockets of civilization" ambience.

[FoE]

Eberron, on the other hand, has always seemed like a setting with a modern feel to me, where threats are of different nature, not to mention that "small pockets of civilization" feel is quite contradictory to magical forms of transport such as airships. Is it false?

Oh, yer. You're more likely to be taken out by assassins than bandits. The villains of the setting are more likely to be in the government than in the abandoned castle down the road.

[Morty]

Oh, yer. You're more likely to be taken out by assassins than bandits.

Which doesn't mean the setting is in any way similiar to what we see in 4ed DMG. In 3ed Faerun there's several assasin guilds around; would you call it similiar to the default 4ed setting? Villains being in the government are quite contradictory to deafult 4th edition D&D assumption that villain is an evil warlord/wizard/dragon/whatever out there in some dungeon.

[Lappy9000]

EDIT: I'd hate it when people edit their posts while I'm responding if I didn't do this myself.

Sorry

[FoE]

For the most part, you're right, it doesn't quiiiite fit in with the Points of Light theme. I guess what I was trying to get at was that evil and corruption are widespread throughout the entire setting, and it is a fairly miserable world that's probably not going to get better.

Honestly, I don't know how WotC will upgrade the setting. They've obviously got some shiny new races to stick in there, so we can expect some changes ... but what else will have happened?

[Morty]

For the most part, you're right, it doesn't quiiiite fit in with the Points of Light theme. I guess what I was trying to get at was that evil and corruption are widespread throughout the entire setting, and it is a fairly miserable world that's probably not going to get better.

Yes, but evil in Eberron of much different nature than in 4ed default setting, or most 3ed settings for that matter. A better one, but you can't have everything.

Honestly, I don't know how WotC will upgrade the setting. They've obviously got some shiny new races to stick in there, so we can expect some changes ... but what else will have happened?

I've seen a Dragon article some time ago describing a monster-populated town. It might have been either something that'll appear in Eberron or an attempt to get some Eberron feel into default 4ed.

[FoE]

I've seen a Dragon article some time ago describing a monster-populated town. It might have been either something that'll appear in Eberron or an attempt to get some Eberron feel into default 4ed.

Oh, Graywall. It was always there. Part of the proud monster nation of Droamm!

[RebelRogue]

Are they? I've always thought that 4ed's "points of light" concept is going to be hard to incorporate into Eberron. I might be wrong, though, I don't play it. But from what I know, Eberron goes away from the "good nice races vs. ugly evil races" theme which is even stronger in 4ed than in 3ed.

I was thinking more about certain mechanics than the "points of light"-thing, which I agree doesn't necessarily fit too well. I was thinking stuff like action points, streamlined action (very suitable to a pulpy style)/cinematics, the possibilty of Divine characters to have alignments conflicting with their churces and so on.

[FoE]

That, and the notion that heroes are special individuals above the common man. Plus, the concept of Rituals fits much better into Eberron, where magic is everywhere and utility spells are used by the common folk.