[4e] Tweaking Artifacts

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I have recently fallen in love with the Soul Sword, an artifact described in Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead. It's the perfect weapon for an undead-slaying paladin, which I happen to be playing. The problem is, it's a greatsword, and I am a devotee of the bastard sword. Is it too unbalancing to change it to a bastard sword? I don't really like bastard swords for any particular mechanical advantage. I just think they're cooler-looking than greatswords.

[pirateshow]

The game I'm DMing has yet to involve any artifacts, so this is pure conjecture... but no, I can't imagine that being unbalancing. Artifacts have so much wacky stuff going on (that doesn't necessarily cost your character ANY of his hard-earned wealth) that I can't imagine that minor adjustment throwing things out of whack.

[Izmir Stinger]

That depends. I am not familiar with the artifact in question, but if it has "shielding" type powers or properties (stuff with defense boosts or temporary damage reduction/HP and such) it might not be appropriate to make it a one-handed weapon thus allowing it to be used in conjunction with a shield and all the benefits and powers enabled by having a shield. It is possible some sort of super-defense cheese would be possible.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

As far as I can tell, the Soul Sword doesn't offer shielding powers. It allows the use of some paladin powers though, but I'd already have those powers as a paladin. It also offers a boost to Religion, Athletics and one other skill (I forget which) and a penalty to Bluff, Theivery and Stealth. It's supposed to be good for killing undead.

Really the only reason I'd want to change it is because I took Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) at first level, and it'd become obsolete if I just used a greatsword instead. I wouldn't want my bastard sword to get lonely.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

This is my character's current set-up. I'm still at level 1:

Sarastro of Goab

Race: Half-Elf
Class: Paladin (Multiclass: Warlord).
Paragon Path: Knight Commander.
Epic Destiny: Demigod.

Starting Ability Scores:
Str 14, Con 13, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 18.

Ability Score Boosts:
4 - +1 Dex, +1 Cha
8 - +1 Dex, +1 Str
11 - +1 to all
14 - +1 Str, +1 Cha
18 - +1 Str, +1 Dex
21 - +1 to all (Demigod: +2 Str, +2 Cha)
24 - (Unsure at the moment)
28 - (Unsure at the moment)

Final Ability Scores (by level 21):
Str 21, Con 15, Dex 17, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 24.

Trained Skills:
Diplomacy, Heal, Insight, Religion, (Unsure what skill to get from Student of Battle. Is Endurance one of them?)

Gear:
Bastard Sword, Heavy Shield, Plate Armor

1, At-Will: Holy Strike, Bolstering Strike.
1, Encounter: Piercing Stirke, Furious Smash (from Dilletante).
1, Daily: Radiant Delirium.
2, Utility: Astral Speech (replaced with Shake It Off after multiclassing).
3, Encounter: Righteous Smite.
5, Daily: Sign of Vulnerability.
6, Utility: Wrath of the Gods.
7, Encounter: Thunder Smite.
9, Daily: Radiant Pulse.
10, Utility: Cleansing Spirit.
11, Encounter:.
12, Utility:.
13, Encounter: Renewing Strike (replaces Piercing Strike).
15, Daily: True Nemesis (replaces Radiant Pulse).
16, Utility: Death Ward.
17, Encounter: Hand of the Gods (replaces Thunder Smite).
19, Daily: Righteous Inferno (replaces Radiant Delirium).
20, Daily:.
22, Utility:.
23, Encounter:.
25, Daily:.
26, Utility: Divine Regeneration.
27, Encounter:.
29, Daily:.


1. Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword)
2. Group Insight
4. Human Perseverance
6. Student of Battle (Endurance?)
8. MC Utility
10. Astral Fire (retrained for Heavy Blade Opportunity at 11)
11. Shield Specialization
12. Action Recovery
14. Danger Sense
16. Point Blank Shot
18. Improved Initiative
20. Weapon Focus (heavy blades)
21. Heavy Blade Mastery
22.
24.
26.
28.
30.

[RTGoodman]

Off the top of my head, I think it'd be fine to change it. Of course, if this is true:

Really the only reason I'd want to change it is because I took Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) at first level, and it'd become obsolete if I just used a greatsword instead.

Then you could always just re-train the proficiency feat for something... better. The only difference I could see would be if you want to use a shield or not.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Well, Shield Specialization was reccomended to me.

[Mando Knight]

Well, Shield Specialization was reccomended to me.

Shield Spec is good for plate wearing sword-and-board defenders, as it provides +1 Reflex above Plate Spec's bonus, as well as prereq synergy with Heavy Blade feats. Definitely worth a look. Doesn't stack with Lightning Reflexes, though.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

What if I ditched Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) and Shield Specialization and replaced them with Lightning Reflexes and Plate Specialization? Then I could use a greatsword instead, which is what the Soul Sword is.

[NecroRebel]

What if I ditched Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) and Shield Specialization and replaced them with Lightning Reflexes and Plate Specialization? Then I could use a greatsword instead, which is what the Soul Sword is.

You'd be down 2 AC because you wouldn't be wielding a shield, up 1 Reflex due to Lightning Reflexes's superior bonus, but otherwise would be even. Then, if you happen to get that artifact (which you shouldn't count on because it is an artifact) you'll not have to rebuild it at all.

Do note that a Blade of Bahamut +4 is strictly better than the Soul Sword if you happen to be a Paladin of Bahamut, as it probably comes out at roughly the same level and saves you from needing a seperate holy symbol. A Holy Avenger is even better once you're high enough level to get one due to the far more powerful property and power.

[Mando Knight]

You'd be down 2 AC because you wouldn't be wielding a shield, up 1 Reflex due to Lightning Reflexes's superior bonus, but otherwise would be even.

Actually, you'd be down a point of Reflex compared to a Heavy Shield + Shield Spec, since shields grant their bonus to Reflex defense as well as to AC.

[NecroRebel]

Actually, you'd be down a point of Reflex compared to a Heavy Shield + Shield Spec, since shields grant their bonus to Reflex defense as well as to AC.

Really? *checks book* Holy crap, how did I miss that?

...You know, it's probably because I just consulted the table instead of reading the text.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

You'd be down 2 AC because you wouldn't be wielding a shield, up 1 Reflex due to Lightning Reflexes's superior bonus, but otherwise would be even. Then, if you happen to get that artifact (which you shouldn't count on because it is an artifact) you'll not have to rebuild it at all.

Do note that a Blade of Bahamut +4 is strictly better than the Soul Sword if you happen to be a Paladin of Bahamut, as it probably comes out at roughly the same level and saves you from needing a seperate holy symbol. A Holy Avenger is even better once you're high enough level to get one due to the far more powerful property and power.

I worship Pelor.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Actually, you'd be down a point of Reflex compared to a Heavy Shield + Shield Spec, since shields grant their bonus to Reflex defense as well as to AC.

And that's bad, right?

[The Mormegil]

No, considering how I treat weapons in particular. To me broad/bastard/greatsword is the same weapon, just with different degrees of mastery.

[Tengu_temp]

Ho, this build looks mighty familiar... didn't I help you out with it?

(Unsure what skill to get from Student of Battle. Is Endurance one of them?)

Yes.

As for the actual question, even if Soul Sword appeared as a greatsword in your game, you can always ask your party wizard to use Transfer Enchantment from Adventurer's Vault and transfer its properties to a bastard sword. Unless this ritual doesn't work on artifacts.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Ho, this build looks mighty familiar... didn't I help you out with it?

I believe you did. Thank you.

As for the actual question, even if Soul Sword appeared as a greatsword in your game, you can always ask your party wizard to use Transfer Enchantment from Adventurer's Vault and transfer its properties to a bastard sword. Unless this ritual doesn't work on artifacts.

I'm going to err on the side of caution and assume artifacts play by a whole different set of rules. Besides, when I brought it up to my DM, he said that if I were to get the Soul Sword, I'd have to ditch my shield. It's looking more and more like I'll need to switch up some feats, which is sitting better with me now than it was before.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So...does any more need to be said?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Another question. With the MC Utility feat, you can only have one utility power from your other class, right? You can't swap another of your original utility powers for an additional utility power from the other class?

[Tengu_temp]

So...does any more need to be said?

Yeah - just that you should relax, you're only level 1 for now and it will take some time before you get your artifact.

Another question. With the MC Utility feat, you can only have one utility power from your other class, right? You can't swap another of your original utility powers for an additional utility power from the other class?

Yup, each of the multiclass feats allows you to swap only one power of the type.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Which may or may not happen, judging by how the latest fight has lasted going on two freakin' MONTHS now! (It's an online play-by-post.)

So should I take Shake It Off or Guileful Switch (I think that's what it's called)? I know it's definately replacing Astral Speech.

[NeoVid]

Nothing to do with your specific question, but for one of those undecided feats, I wanted to recommend the stupidly strong Action Surge.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Okay. So Action Surge, Blade Opportunist, Heavy Blade Opportunity, etc. What Epic Feats are best for this? I'm thinking Font of Radiance, but are there any better ones? I have access to Martial Power, so the Warlord feats in there are available as well.

[Tengu_temp]

If you take Font of Radiance, also take Epic Resurgence and Triumphant Attack - if you get one bonus when scoring a critical strike, why not have three bonuses instead? Similarily, if you get at least one feat that gives you boosts when you use an action point, it's worth to take them all.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So go for those feats and the Action Point feats. I think that sounds solid. I'll try and tweak the build and repost it.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Okay, taking the advice I've recieved here and elsewhere, I've tweaked the build somewhat, replacing the paragon path and tweaking powers and feats. How does it look now? Is everything in a good place? Would some feats be better taken later? Earlier? Not at all? Good choice of powers? How exaclty does one roleplay a Champion of Order when they worship Pelor, who isn't as concerned about order? I'm Good, not Lawful Good.

Thank you all for your help and advice so far.

Spoiler

Show

Sarastro of Goab

Race: Half-Elf
Class: Paladin (Multiclass: Warlord).
Paragon Path: Champion of Order.
Epic Destiny: Demigod.

Starting Ability Scores:
Str 14, Con 13, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 18.

Ability Score Boosts:
4 - +1 Dex, +1 Cha
8 - +1 Dex, +1 Str
11 - +1 to all
14 - +1 Str, +1 Cha
18 - +1 Str, +1 Dex
21 - +1 to all (Demigod: +2 Str, +2 Cha)
24 - +1 Str, +1 Cha
28 - +1 Wis, +1 Cha

Final Ability Scores (by level 21):
Str 22, Con 15, Dex 17, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 26.

Trained Skills:
Diplomacy, Heal, Insight, Religion, (Endurance from Inspiring Leader)

Gear:
Bastard Sword, Heavy Shield, Plate Armor

1, At-Will: Holy Strike, Bolstering Strike.
1, Encounter: Piercing Stirke, Furious Smash (from Dilletante).
1, Daily: Radiant Delirium.
2, Utility: Astral Speech.
3, Encounter: Righteous Smite.
5, Daily: Sign of Vulnerability.
6, Utility: Wrath of the Gods.
7, Encounter: Thunder Smite.
9, Daily: Radiant Pulse.
10, Utility: Cleansing Spirit (replaced with Guileful Swtich at the next level).
11, Encounter: Certain Justice.
12, Utility: None Shall Pass.
13, Encounter: Renewing Strike (replaces Piercing Strike).
15, Daily: True Nemesis (replaces Radiant Pulse).
16, Utility: Death Ward.
17, Encounter: Hand of the Gods (replaces Thunder Smite).
19, Daily: Righteous Inferno (replaces Radiant Delirium).
20, Daily: Rule of Order.
22, Utility: United In Faith.
23, Encounter: Enervating Smite.
25, Daily: Corona of Blinding Radiance.
26, Utility: Divine Regeneration.
27, Encounter: Restricting Smite.
29, Daily: Even Hand of Justice.

1. Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) (retrained for Lightning Reflexes at 12)
2. Group Insight
4. Human Perseverance
6. Inspiring Leader (Training in Endurance)
8. MC Utility
10. Astral Fire (retrained for Heavy Blade Opportunity at 11)
11. Armor Specialization (Plate)
12. Action Recovery
14. Danger Sense
16. Point Blank Shot
18. Improved Initiative
20. Weapon Focus (heavy blades)
21. Heavy Blade Mastery
22. Action Surge
24. Blade Opportunist
26. Epic Resurgence
28. Triumphant Attack
30. Font of Radiance

[NecroRebel]

Um... What power are you replacing Astral Speech with? Guileful Switch is level 6, Astral Speech is level 2, and you have to replace a power with a power of equal or lower level. So, either you're referring to the wrong level 2 power that you're replacing, you're referring to the wrong level 2 power that you're replacing it with, or you're trying to do something that's a no-no. See page 209 of the Player's Handbook, in the section labeled Power Swap Feats, first paragraph, last sentence.

It seems to me that you might want to use your last Strength increase on Wisdom instead. I'm not aware of any feats that have a requirement of Str 23, so Str 22 gives the exact same benefits and that would give you Wis 16, for +1 to Perception and Insight (both important skills) and one more Lay on Hands per day. Remember, LoH isn't a true at-will: it's Wis/day. Pumping your Wisdom a bit more also gives a host of other benefits, as many Paladin powers get a peripheral benefit from that stat.

I'm also not certain Point Blank Shot will be too terribly useful, though I haven't looked at all your powers to check how many are ranged. Maybe look into replacing it. Also, you're not retraining many of your feats; that may be intentional, but if not, you might look at epic and paragon-tier feats that you might want more than your paragon or heroic-tier ones and consider replacing the weaker with the stronger.



As far as roleplaying goes, Pelor's commandments do include "Be watchful against evil." You can focus more on this aspect of His portfolio rather than the more generically-Good ones, as well as simply believing that the holy scriptures of the gods are to be followed absolutely. This is much harder to give advice on than other aspects of a character, but you can justify many different behaviors if you so desire. Play as you want.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I can't even remember why Point Blank Shot was suggested, to tell you the truth.

I made the necessary corrections. Looks like I'm stuck with Astral Speech, then.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Should I drop Group Insight? The primary reason I'm taking it is for the initiative bonus it gives everyone, but if I'm moving away from a leaderly role (which seems to be the case now that our party has both a cleric AND a warlord), will that be as much of an issue? What about Improved Initiative?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So...no advice for or against?