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    Lord Iames Osari's Avatar

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    Default [PrC] Soulfire Guardian

    This was part of my entry into the Summer Organization contest, and someone said it was overpowered. I asked for some PEACHing in the contest thread, but none has been forthcoming, so I figured I'd start a new thread here.

    The Soulfire Guardian

    Soulfire Guardians are those chosen to wield Vala's soulfire with its greatest potency. Most of them are members of the Soulfire Knights organization, but occasionally Vala will single out a worshipper from outside the organization to take on this mantle.
    Hit Die: d8.

    REQUIREMENTS
    Alignment: Lawful good or neutral good.
    BAB: +3.
    Skills: Knowledge (the planes) 3 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks.
    Feats: Soulfire Spell.
    Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level divine spells.
    Special: Must be a worshipper of Vala.

    Class Skills
    The Soulfire Guardian's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
    Skill Points per Level: 2 + Int modifier.

    {table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spells
    1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Smite evil 1/day, soulfire weapon|~
    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|~|+1 level of spellcasting class
    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Turn undead|+1 level of spellcasting class
    4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|~|~
    5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Improved soulfire spell, smite evil 2/day|+1 level of spellcasting class
    6th|+6|+5|+2|+5|~|+1 level of spellcasting class
    7th|+7|+5|+2|+5|Soulfire blast|~
    8th|+8|+6|+2|+6|~|+1 level of spellcasting class
    9th|+9|+6|+3|+6|Smite evil 3/day|+1 level of spellcasting class
    10th|+10|+7|+3|+7|Soulfire ward|~[/table]

    Spells: At the indicated levels, a Soulfire Guardian's spellcasting ability improves as if she had gained a level in the spellcasting class she previously possessed. If the Soulfire Guardian possesses multiple spellcasting classes, she must choose which class to apply this ability to. The Soulfire Guardian gains no other benefits of having gone up a level in whichever spellcasting class she chooses.
    Smite Evil (Su): At 1st level, the Soulfire Guardian gains the ability to smite evil 1/day. This ability functions like the paladin ability of the same name. Paladin, cleric, and Soulfire Guardian levels stack to determine the power of the Soulfire Guardian's smite attack. At 5th and 9th levels, the Soulfire Guardian can smite evil an additional time per day.
    Soulfire Weapon (Su): At 1st level, the Soulfire Guardian chooses a weapon with which to exercise Vala's will. The SG must be proficient with this weapon, and it must have been in her possession for the last 24 hours. This can be any weapon that meets the above requirements, magical or mundane. While wielding this weapon, the SG has a +1 sacred bonus on attack rolls, and the weapon counts as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. A SG may only have one soulfire weapon at a time. Starting at 2nd level, the SG's chosen weapon counts as silver as well as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Starting at 4th level, the SG's chosen weapon is treated as good-aligned. Starting at 6th level, the SG's chosen weapon deals an additional 1d6 points of fire damage. Starting at 8th level, the SG's chosen weapon is treated as lawful-aligned. Starting at 10th level, the SG's chosen weapon deals an additional 1d6 points of sacred damage.
    Improved Soulfire Spell: Starting at 5th level, spells a SG prepares and/or casts with the Soulfire Spell metamagic feat use a spell slot of a level equal to the unmodified spell.
    Turn Undead (Su): Starting at 3rd level, the SG adds her SG level - 2 to her paladin and/or cleric levels for the purpose of turning undead.
    Soulfire Blast: Starting at 7th level, the SG can lose one of her prepared spells to gain a number of power points equal to (spell level x 2) - 1 as a free action. The SG then gains the ability to manifest any of the follwing psionic powers: energy ball, energy bolt, energy burst, energy cone, or energy missile. These powers can deal only fire damage and are treated as if they were modified by the Soulfire Spell metamagic feat. They otherwise follow all the normal rules for manifesting psionic powers. Your Wisdom modifier determines how hard these powers are to resist, and your manifester level is equal to your divine caster level. Any power points gained with this ability disappear at the end of the day.
    Soulfire Ward: Starting at 10th level, the SG can spend the power points gained by her Soulfire Blast ability to manifest the energy wall power. This power can deal only fire damage and is treated as if it was modified by the Soulfire Spell metamagic feat. It otherwise follows all the normal rules for manifesting psionic powers. Your Wisdom modifier determines how hard these powers are to resist, and your manifester level is equal to your divine caster level.

    Edit - Altered Soulfire Blast mechanic. Moved Improved Soulfire Spell to 5th level from 3rd.
    Last edited by Lord Iames Osari; 2006-11-20 at 07:41 PM. Reason: link fixage

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    Default Re: The Soulfire Guardian [PrC]

    :'( Why does no one comment? WHY?

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    Default Re: [PrC] Soulfire Guardian

    Didn't I mention something about the whole taking my name thing had cursed you? Yeah, I think that's it.
    I no longer actively read the forums, and probably won't respond to any PMs. I'm fine with people using my homebrew in anything, including fan-compilations and wikis, as long as you credit me.

    Homebrew by The Demented One.

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    Default Re: [PrC] Soulfire Guardian

    I would love to just sit silently as you try to figure out why noone PEACHes this, but I enjoy being matter-of-fact too much to do that. Simply putting the word PEACH in the title turns me off to replying to it, and I'm sure quite a few other people as well. That and your obvious aggression kinda did you in, buddy.

    Anyway, This is an awesome class flavorwise, especially for an elite force of NPCs, but it does seem rather powerful, especially with the soulfire blast ability. I really do love the fact that someone has FINALLY made a Paladin PrC, and that it is done very well. The d8 hit dice was meant to balance out the spellcasting abilities and soulfire weapon, I suppose, but the weapon abilities, spell advancement, undead turning, and soulfire blast make it too powerful to be balanced by dit dice that's only one step lower.
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    Default Re: [PrC] Soulfire Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighth_Seraph
    I would love to just sit silently as you try to figure out why noone PEACHes this, but I enjoy being matter-of-fact too much to do that. Simply putting the word PEACH in the title turns me off to replying to it, and I'm sure quite a few other people as well. That and your obvious aggression kinda did you in, buddy.
    Yeah... :-[ Gorbash PMed me about that. I was coming here to change the title to something less aggressive, but lo and behold it had been done for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Demented_One
    Didn't I mention something about the whole taking my name thing had cursed you? Yeah, I think that's it.
    Darn it, D1, I did not steal the name. If anything, this evidence of the old saying, "great minds think alike". Either that, or of a psychic resonance between the two of us.

    Anyway, This is an awesome class flavorwise, especially for an elite force of NPCs, but it does seem rather powerful, especially with the soulfire blast ability. I really do love the fact that someone has FINALLY made a Paladin PrC, and that it is done very well. The d8 hit dice was meant to balance out the spellcasting abilities and soulfire weapon, I suppose, but the weapon abilities, spell advancement, undead turning, and soulfire blast make it too powerful to be balanced by dit dice that's only one step lower.
    Thanks.
    <_< >_>
    To be totally honest, I mostly ripped this class off from Eberron's Exorcists of the Silver Flame. Mechanics-wise, and in its original incarnation, anyway.
    But that aside, how would you recommend balancing it?

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    Default Re: [PrC] Soulfire Guardian

    Ok, well, first off, who is Vala?

    #2. Soulfire Spell is a little iffy. First off, its about the equivalent of two feats at once. There is a feat in Sandstorm that makes heat spells so hot they bypass resistance. However, those with immunity take half damage.

    Yours on the other hand deals full damage to them, making it better than the sandstorm feat. 'Also', it turns all fire based spells into 'good' spells, which can also be very useful.

    Now, the sandstorm one deals double damage to those with fire immunity. However, since yours ignores immunity period, I'd say they are about equal.

    However, yours still has the added benefit of it becoming a good aligned spell, which a couple other feats do. This only applies to fire-based spells.

    So though not that broad reaching, I think its just a tad overpowered.

    With the Improved Soulfire Spell it then becomes 'very' useful indeed.

    #3. You get quite a bit along with the very generous levels of a spellcasting class. A paladin with this PrC at 13th level can now blast this fire out a good ammount per day. A charisma of 16 (not uncommon with paladins) lets you blast at least 7 times a day that ignores fire resistance. Get one of those turning boosting feats, and you can probably do it a good round 10 times, dealing 31 damage each time (15 if they make the save). Thats pretty snazzy, and this is along with all their other goodies.


    As for why not many have commented on it, though its growing on me the more I read it, its basically just another PrC that lets you make fire with your sword. Its very well done, but the problem is there are SO many fire-based PrC's, many having to do with fighters and fire that it just doesn't stand out.

    Thats basically why I decided not to enter a PrC because I couldn't really think of something that wouldn't be closely related to one already done.

    Then there is the fact you mixed psionics up with it... thats enough to make some folks ignore it ::)

    What is strange is that would make a 'very' good PrC for a Divine Mind if you altered a few things. Give it a tad more psionic feel and it'd certainly be better than a sort of electrical version of your PrC in the book.

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    Default Re: [PrC] Soulfire Guardian

    It's hard to say. The whole point behind this class is to have a Paladin with soulfire abilities, which by definition will be very powerful. I think that if you cut down the spell progression a bit, and instead of making the the soulfire blast a Su, maybe you can add them to the spell list. That would put this class a long way towards balance, I think.
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    Default Re: [PrC] Soulfire Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble
    Ok, well, first off, who is Vala?
    Well, since you asked...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Iames, the CoP
    Vala/Bella
    Intermediate Goddess (Lawful Good)
    Called Bella by the dwarves and Vala by all others, She is the patron goddess of the righteous, the zealous, the pure, and the just. Typical worshippers of Vala are paladins, judges, and other crusaders. Her titles include the Lady of the Ardent Heart, Mother of Dwarves, Wielder of the Soulfire Blade, Righteous One, Defender of Valor, and Keeper of All Honor. Vala is the first of the Three Goddesses, and Her symbol is a heart surrounded by silver flame. Her personal weapon, Soulfire, is a +6 axiomatic commanding flaming burst holy ghost touch silver longsword. The longsword is Her favored weapon, and weapon of the deity spells cast by Her clerics result in a +1 flaming longsword. She usually appears as a tall, beautiful human, half-elf, or dwarf woman with straight black hair and silver eyes.
    Portfolio: Courage, dwarves, fire, honor, justice, purity, righteousness, valor, war, zeal.
    [Edit - removed extraneous info]
    #2. Soulfire Spell is a little iffy. First off, its about the equivalent of two feats at once. There is a feat in Sandstorm that makes heat spells so hot they bypass resistance. However, those with immunity take half damage.

    Yours on the other hand deals full damage to them, making it better than the sandstorm feat. 'Also', it turns all fire based spells into 'good' spells, which can also be very useful.

    Now, the sandstorm one deals double damage to those with fire immunity. However, since yours ignores immunity period, I'd say they are about equal.

    However, yours still has the added benefit of it becoming a good aligned spell, which a couple other feats do. This only applies to fire-based spells.

    So though not that broad reaching, I think its just a tad overpowered.

    With the Improved Soulfire Spell it then becomes 'very' useful indeed.
    Okay... so if Soulfire Spell was +2 levels and Improved Soulfire Spell reduced by 1 level, would that be balanced enough? I'd like to talk more about the balance of Soulfire Spell, but there's already a thread for that. Meet you there? ;D Edit - Just checked. It has not yet been 1.5 months since the last post; we're still safe from threadomancy charges. And something I just thought of: How is Soulfire Spell good enough to justify more than a +1 spell level adjustment, when Energy Substitution can accomplish the same thing (damage things with fire resistance/immunity) and has a 0-level modification? What advantage does having the spell become good aligned grant that merits an extra +1?

    #3. You get quite a bit along with the very generous levels of a spellcasting class. A paladin with this PrC at 13th level can now blast this fire out a good ammount per day. A charisma of 16 (not uncommon with paladins) lets you blast at least 7 times a day that ignores fire resistance. Get one of those turning boosting feats, and you can probably do it a good round 10 times, dealing 31 damage each time (15 if they make the save). Thats pretty snazzy, and this is along with all their other goodies.
    Okaaaay... Lessee... What if, instead of taking just one turning attempt, you had to spend 2 for energy missile, 3 for energy burst, energy bolt, energy wall, and energy cone, and 4 for energy ball? And/or took away the automatic augmentation?

    Edit - Inspiration! Or they could spontaneously convert spell slots into pp to create the effects! edit again - Done.

    Edit 3.5: You know what a good combo with this class is? Monk 16/Clr 1/SG 2, with a ki focus cold iron longsword. Overcomes all core material-based damage reduction.

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    Default Re: [PrC] Soulfire Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Iames the Dark
    Soulfire Blast: Starting at 7th level, the SG can lose one of her prepared spells to gain a number of power points equal to (spell level x 2) - 1 as a free action. The SG then gains the ability to manifest any of the follwing psionic powers: energy ball, energy bolt, energy burst, energy cone, or energy missile. These powers can deal only fire damage and are treated as if they were modified by the Soulfire Spell metamagic feat. They otherwise follow all the normal rules for manifesting psionic powers. Your Wisdom modifier determines how hard these powers are to resist, and your manifester level is equal to your divine caster level. Any power points gained with this ability disappear at the end of the day.
    Soulfire Ward: Starting at 10th level, the SG can spend the power points gained by her Soulfire Blast ability to manifest the energy wall power. This power can deal only fire damage and is treated as if it was modified by the Soulfire Spell metamagic feat. It otherwise follows all the normal rules for manifesting psionic powers. Your Wisdom modifier determines how hard these powers are to resist, and your manifester level is equal to your divine caster level.
    So, here are the revised mechanics for Soulfire Blast and Soulfire Ward.

    Also, I took away the spellcsting increase at 5th, but I have a feeling it's not enough. I'm thinking of doing the same at 6th level, too. Opinions?

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    Default Re: [PrC] Soulfire Guardian

    Well, it makes my Soulfire based Prc I did years ago look pathetic... Actually that class was completly pathetic, it had to deal charisma damage to itself to use it's abilities.

    You should state whether or not your Soulfire weapon has to be mundane or not. I'm guessing it's supposed to be usuable on magic weapons.

    I don't think it needs -2 to turn undead, that way a paladin 10 Soulfire Guardian 10 has an effective level of 16 when turning.

    It doesn't look that overpowered to be, maybe take away one of the +1d6 from Soulfire weapon and reduce one of the good saves.
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    Default Re: [PrC] Soulfire Guardian

    Changed the 1st level soulfire weapon ability to give a sacred attack bonus and clarified that it could affect any weapon, mundane or magical.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble
    #2. Soulfire Spell is a little iffy. First off, its about the equivalent of two feats at once. There is a feat in Sandstorm that makes heat spells so hot they bypass resistance. However, those with immunity take half damage.

    Yours on the other hand deals full damage to them, making it better than the sandstorm feat. 'Also', it turns all fire based spells into 'good' spells, which can also be very useful.

    Now, the sandstorm one deals double damage to those with fire immunity. However, since yours ignores immunity period, I'd say they are about equal.

    However, yours still has the added benefit of it becoming a good aligned spell, which a couple other feats do. This only applies to fire-based spells.

    So though not that broad reaching, I think its just a tad overpowered.

    With the Improved Soulfire Spell it then becomes 'very' useful indeed.
    OK, VT, the feat thread is now officially on the list of "do not revive," so I copied the feat below. You say it's overpowered? Let us discuss and improve both it and the class.

    Soulfire Spell (Metamagic)
    You can call upon Vala's power and channel Her power into your fire-based spells.
    Prerequisite: Ability to cast spells from the Fire domain, patron goddess Vala, alignment lawful good, neutral good, or lawful neutral.
    Benefit: A soulfire spell is more potent against creatures resistant to fire. This metamagic feat can only be applied to damage-dealing spells with the Fire descriptor. Spells modified by this feat ignore resistance to fire and immunity to fire for the purpose of dealing damage. Spells modified by this metamagic feat take up a slot one level higher than normal and gain the Good descriptor, and the flames produced by the modified spell are silver.

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