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    Default Destroying a magical weapon

    How would a 9th level wizard go about shattering someone's magical weapon?
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    With disjunction usually. It's not a good or freindly idea however.

    You can also just cast dispel on it to suppress the effect, then use shatter on it, which is typically a warlock tactic.

    Please note that this tactic tends to make the party rather ticked off at whoever did it, as it's destroying party wealth.

    Edit: Wait, ninth level wizard, not spells. Bleh.

    Dispel shatter is the way to go.
    Last edited by Yukitsu; 2009-02-22 at 04:16 PM.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    It's also a dispel check followed by a 1 in 4 chance that the weapon will be remagical by next round anyway followed by a will save. Pick your targets carefully.

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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Throw the magic ring weapon into Mt. Doom a volcano.

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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    I'm going to open with the obvious question. Why would you want to do that?

    I think that guy that kept talking about 'sociopathic Wizards' and you might need to meet, depending on your answer.

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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    An individual keeps threatening the wizard and brandishing the weapon, trying to boss the wizard around. The wizard is much smarter than this individual, who is a Leroy Jenkins type. Wizard, needless to say, is getting a bit fed up. Basically, it's nicer than just killing the individual, but lets the individual know the wizard is getting tired of his annoying antics.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    If Complete Arcane is an allowed source, Orb of Acid or Orb of Force would be reasonable bets, dealing 1d6/level damage, of the appropriate types, on a ranged touch attack. At 9th level, that averages to 31 damage. Assuming the bonus on the weapon is only +1 and that it is not made of any special material, the average damage would be enough to ruin any weapon that isn't a two-handed sword or a metal-hafted weapon in one shot.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Problem here is, the person wont likely give you the chance to shatter it after casting your spell. More than likely, he/she will respond to your Dispel Magic, by charging you or full attacking you, easily dropping you into the negatives in a couple rounds.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateJesus View Post
    Problem here is, the person wont likely give you the chance to shatter it after casting your spell. More than likely, he/she will respond to your Dispel Magic, by charging you or full attacking you, easily dropping you into the negatives in a couple rounds.
    If a Wizard can be one-rounded at 9th level by a Leeroy Jenkins type... he deserves it.

    Seriously, Dispel + Quickened Shatter = dead blade. Fly first, so he can't reach you.
    Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2009-02-22 at 10:18 PM.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Right, then the fighter shoots him down with a bow.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Where did the 9th-level wizard get the 6th level slot for that quickened Shatter?
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Well that gives me about 30 rounds to act, cause first the fighter would have to go purchase a ranged weapon and ammunition.

    Or make his spellcraft check to figure out what I cast, then try to figure out why.

    And since most ranged weapons do only about 8 points of damage max, I think a 9th level wizard can handle it.

    But you've got a point. I guess I should just kill the fighter instead of trying to give him a chance.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Why don't you set up a "random encounter" for the fighter with the aid of the Summon Monster line of spells? Should be able to waste him with those no problem.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte View Post
    If Complete Arcane is an allowed source, Orb of Acid or Orb of Force would be reasonable bets, dealing 1d6/level damage, of the appropriate types, on a ranged touch attack. At 9th level, that averages to 31 damage. Assuming the bonus on the weapon is only +1 and that it is not made of any special material, the average damage would be enough to ruin any weapon that isn't a two-handed sword or a metal-hafted weapon in one shot.
    You cannot sunder with a ranged attack. Specifically, ranged touched spells can only target a creature. If their gear is targeted it simply hits the creature instead.

    Quickened shatter is a 6th level spell, which a 9th level caster cannot cast.

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateJesus View Post
    Right, then the fighter shoots him down with a bow.
    And any PC with half a brain carries a backup ranged weapon. Or the fighter attacks him with a dagger or grapples him. Or he may carry a spare main weapon (perhaps just to have a spare or a cold iron version or etc.).

    Quote Originally Posted by KeresM View Post
    And since most ranged weapons do only about 8 points of damage max, I think a 9th level wizard can handle it.
    ... in the hands of a commoner. Try ~24-30 damage average over multiple attacks from a composite longbow, which is affordable enough. And the attacks have an excellent chance of hitting a wizard's AC even with just BAB + masterwork + dex. A 9th level wizard averages 24 + (con bonus x 9) HP. A little more from false life if he's smart & prepared, assuming he's worried about taking damage and not using his spells for something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Why don't you set up a "random encounter" for the fighter with the aid of the Summon Monster line of spells? Should be able to waste him with those no problem.
    A summon monster V has the HP, AC, and attack bonus of a wizard, with a bit more martial damage. Instead of summoning why not cast greater magic weapon on yourself to get the damage and charge the fighter with a staff yourself, w/o spells? See how well that goes. Sheesh, the things people come up with. Next we'll be hearing that the wizard could win with cantrips (great now that I've said it someone is going to try...).

    Destroying his weapon is a two round tactic with 3 points where it could fail, and even after all that it doesn't completely disable the target anyway. Like it's already been said, the wizard should just attack the fighter or w/e directly. Destroying something's weapon is a bit situational.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-02-22 at 10:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateJesus View Post
    Right, then the fighter shoots him down with a bow.
    How?

    Seriously, first you have to hit the wizard, then you have to make it land. And of course, you can't apply all kinds of modifiers on it that you could with a melee weapon. He also likely cannot apply most of his feats to a ranged weapon.

    Even if he were to be plinking at the Wizard for ten rounds, he'd still have only even odds of killing the wizard. And if a Wizard cannot destroy one sword in ten rounds, he needs to hand in his character sheet and roll something else.

    Actually, a good idea might be Charm Person, ask to inspect the weapon, as you feel the enchantment may be fading, and you are wanting to ensure that it doesn't fail on him. Then, in your hands, you Dispel, then you Shatter. You shakes your head "Tsk, tsk... shoddy craftsmanship. You, sir, got robbed when you purchased that sword."
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    "Just as I expected. The enchantment's gone bad."
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    That one possibility. The other is...

    Fighter: *succeeds will save and grabs wizard by the throat*

    Wizard: *Not in the face! Not in the face!*

    *Censored*
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateJesus View Post
    That one possibility. The other is...

    Fighter: *succeeds will save and grabs wizard by the throat*

    Wizard: *Not in the face! Not in the face!*

    *Censored*
    To which the Wizard says "Mirror Image... you have a 12.5% chance of grabbing the right throat, failure means you get an Enervation in the face for the next three rounds as I fly out of your reach. So the real question is: Do you feel lucky, punk?"
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quickened Grease on the weapon, then Entangle. Laugh as a free action. You still have your move action left and he's already incapacitated.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    To which the Wizard says "Mirror Image... you have a 12.5% chance of grabbing the right throat, failure means you get an Enervation in the face for the next three rounds as I fly out of your reach. So the real question is: Do you feel lucky, punk?"
    This would indicate that the wizard did not attempt the charm person. Therefore, the fighter would still have his sword. Really the issue depends on the current situation, as well as the rest of the party's reaction to it.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Specifically, ranged touched spells can only target a creature.
    And here I was thinking that only spells with "Target: One creature" HAD to target a creature. Care to share the location of the rule stating that ranged touch spells are required to target a creature?
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte View Post
    And here I was thinking that only spells with "Target: One creature" HAD to target a creature. Care to share the location of the rule stating that ranged touch spells are required to target a creature?
    Quote Originally Posted by srd
    Sunder
    You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding. If youíre attempting to sunder a weapon or shield, follow the steps outlined here. (Attacking held objects other than weapons or shields is covered below.)
    Sunder can only be done with a melee attack. I'll brb to see what I can find specifically in the spells section, but that's enough right there.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Ray
    Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You donít have to see the creature youíre trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature youíre aiming at.
    There's that and the example of targetting a tower shield to hit a creature with a ranged touch spell. The spell then hits the creature not the tower shield, even though the tower shield is otherwise providing total cover against all ranged attacks. And naturally you also hit the creature even when the ray hits his armor; you're targetting his touch AC. So the sunder rules explain it best.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-02-22 at 11:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateJesus View Post
    Right, then the fighter shoots him down with a bow.
    not if he didnt take quickdraw to change weapons as a free action
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Sunder can only be done with a melee attack. I'll brb to see what I can find specifically in the spells section, but that's enough right there.
    Aside from the minor detail that sundering only applies if we're using the Sunder special attack. We're not. What we are doing here is smashing an object. Sundering is but one way of doing this. It is NOT the only way, or rules like this:
    Ranged Weapon Damage

    Objects take half damage from ranged weapons (unless the weapon is a siege engine or something similar). Divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the objectís hardness.
    would not be needed, as, as you've stated, sundering can ONLY be done with melee attacks.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte View Post
    Aside from the minor detail that sundering only applies if we're using the Sunder special attack. We're not. What we are doing here is smashing an object. Sundering is but one way of doing this. It is NOT the only way, or rules like this: would not be needed, as, as you've stated, sundering can ONLY be done with melee attacks.
    From your own link:
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Smashing an Object
    Smashing a weapon or shield with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon is accomplished by the sunder special attack. Smashing an object is a lot like sundering a weapon or shield, except that your attack roll is opposed by the objectís AC. Generally, you can smash an object only with a bludgeoning or slashing weapon.
    You're thinking of attacking an unattended object, which could be done with a spell or siege equipment or whatever. Against a weapon, the rules say specifically it is a sunder attack. And the sunder rules say this can only be done with a melee bludgeoning or slashing weapon.

    Likewise you could not destroy someone's held sword with a catapult rock, though it'd be amusing to see someone try:
    "Line up the shot!"
    "Lining up"
    "Fire rock!"
    "Firing!"
    "He didn't move his sword that time and it hit, but his arm gave out and the rock crushed him instead. He's pinned so we should have a better shot this time. Adjust 3 feet to the left, aim for the sword extending from the squirming arm."
    "Adjusting catapult sir!"
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-02-22 at 11:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Against a weapon, the rules say specifically it is a sunder attack.
    Smashing an Object

    Smashing a weapon or shield with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon is accomplished by the sunder special attack. Smashing an object is a lot like sundering a weapon or shield, except that your attack roll is opposed by the objectís AC. Generally, you can smash an object only with a bludgeoning or slashing weapon.
    Emphasis mine.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Okay, assuming for a moment that they didn't specify slashing or bludgeoning weapon because those are the only weapons you can use (and not because they surely mean to imply that the rules for sundering with a piercing weapon are later in the section)... where's the rule for smashing a held object with a ranged attack then?
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-02-22 at 11:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Likewise you could not destroy someone's held sword with a catapult rock, though it'd be amusing to see someone try:
    "Line up the shot!"
    "Lining up"
    "Fire rock!"
    "Firing!"
    "He didn't move his sword that time and it hit, but his arm gave out and the rock crushed him instead. He's pinned so we should have a better shot this time. Adjust 3 feet to the left, aim for the sword extending from the squirming arm."
    "Adjusting catapult sir!"
    Can you do this with the ranged sunder feat, or would that just be too silly?
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Okay, assuming for a moment that they didn't specify slashing or bludgeoning weapon because those are the only weapons you can use (and not because the rules for sundering with a piercing weapon are later in the section)... where's the rule for smashing a held object with a ranged attack then?
    I already linked them. Note that the smashing an object rules don't specify between held or unheld objects, so technically, smashing an UNHELD weapon with a bludgeoning/slashing weapon is done with the sunder special attack, despite there not being a defender to make an opposed roll. As for rules specific to ranged attacks...

    Furthermore, if you take a full-round action to line up a shot, you get an automatic hit with a melee weapon and a +5 bonus on attack rolls with a ranged weapon.

    ...

    Ranged Weapon Damage

    Objects take half damage from ranged weapons (unless the weapon is a siege engine or something similar). Divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the objectís hardness.
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    Default Re: Destroying a magical weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by KeresM View Post
    Well that gives me about 30 rounds to act, cause first the fighter would have to go purchase a ranged weapon and ammunition.

    Or make his spellcraft check to figure out what I cast, then try to figure out why.

    And since most ranged weapons do only about 8 points of damage max, I think a 9th level wizard can handle it.

    But you've got a point. I guess I should just kill the fighter instead of trying to give him a chance.
    If a melee specialist isn't smart enough to carry a backup ranged weapon, yeah, it's probably better in the long run for you to just kill him.
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