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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Core only Beguiler- feats?

    For a level 3 gnome beguiler, using only the feats from the PHB, would getting improved feint be worth it? It costs two feats, but lets me cloak cast all my spells, which is like getting spell focus for enchantment, illusion, and conjuration.

    Making the concentration checks in combat, though, seems like it would be difficult, without combat casting or a skill focus (do the math- for low level characters, it's worse than full plate and a heavy shield).

    Should I just get spell focus for enchantment and more enchantment? I would go killer gnome build, but it's a core only game (except for the beguiler), so I'm not going to bother thinking about how wild sweet and crazy that would be.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    PHB only with a beguiler? Aren't beguilers in PHB2?

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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Olo Demonsbane View Post
    PHB only with a beguiler? Aren't beguilers in PHB2?
    Yes and yes.

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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    If you're looking for other feats, I believe Obtain Familiar is core or SRD, and a Beguiler gets much more use out of a familiar than any of the classes that get one naturally, as a familiar has identical skill ranks as its master.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVid View Post
    If you're looking for other feats, I believe Obtain Familiar is core or SRD, and a Beguiler gets much more use out of a familiar than any of the classes that get one naturally, as a familiar has identical skill ranks as its master.
    Obtain Familiar, unfortunately, is not a Core (DMG, PHB, MMI) feat. Improved Familiar is, though.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    You only have access to 2 schools of spells. Take Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus in Illusion or Enchantment. After that you can take Toughness for all that it matters.
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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    Enchantment and Illusion focuses are clearly worthwhile. And Improved Initiative (but it probably isn't as important as usual with a stealthy character).

    Depending on the setting, Crafting skills may be worth your time. Fights against Mind Blanked True-Seeing enemies are just so rough without toys...

    And the important scout skills (Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot) are mostly contested checks, so Stealthy and Alertness can be okay picks.

    Um... beyond that, maybe Extend Spell? That 'un will usually pay off some time.

    [edit:] I don't like Improved Feint or Combat Casting/Skill Focus--Concentration because I don't like the idea of being near the bulk of combat in the first place. With PHB2's retraining rules, maybe grab a Concentration boost. Without them, no way.
    Last edited by Temp.; 2009-02-25 at 12:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temp. View Post
    Enchantment and Illusion focuses are clearly worthwhile. And Improved Initiative (but it probably isn't as important as usual with a stealthy character).
    Imp Init is nice, though, because of the combination of Battlefield Control and benefits from Flatfooted enemies. Spellcasters and Rogues like going first, and he is both.
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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    Improved initiative [im-proovd i-nish-ee-uh-tiv]

    -noun
    1. a state in which the opponent's bruiser begins his first turn on your team.
    2. a feat you should take.

    -verb
    1. to win.

    OK maybe I played it up a bit strongly, but this feat help ensure that your beguiler DC boosts are not wasted, and that the gains from mind-borking your enemies are maximized.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    Alright, so playing a beguiler is TONS of fun. The spontaneously casting of any spell on the list is really powerful, yet the list is pretty limited. Being able to hide and sneak as well as a rogue, yet cast spells as well as a wizard, is really enjoyable. I min-maxed for social situations, so getting around in combat is dangerous (grapples, low HP, AoOs). Usually I hide in the corner and shoot a spell or two when a fight breaks out. I'm sort of regretting having such good mods, since the DM naturally scales challenges up to a 50% or so failure rate, while there's no such scale for getting grappled or whatever.

    Anyway, I'm debating on whether or not 6th level should be another level of beguiler, or a level of swordsage. After the fighter's player realized a level five druid with an animal companion in fullplate that was as good as him, and also summoned an animal that was as good as him, before turning into an animal that is as good as him, made him obsolete, the DM is going to let us play with ToB.

    Now, I know that losing caster levels on casters is supposed to be *really* bad, but I figure that since I'm a caster, I'm doing pretty well already. SS would give me some great versatility- 1 round of imp invis as a swift action, teleporting 50 feet as a std action, making a concentration check for reflex saves, 20% miss chance. I also get +2 to the DC of illusion spells, as long as I'm in a shadow hand stance, should I pick up the feat that lets me do that. I lose out on haste, slow, and glibness, as well as dispel magic, for a whole level, though, and social skills. It's only a three person party, so I figure some increased survivability would be in order. Swordsage would let me do some really cool stuff, but haste and slow are both so amazing.

    What do you guys think? Should I put off third level spells for not dying?

    Oh, I also took improved initiative and spell focus: enchantment as my two feats. Imp init has actually worked out quite well, since after my surprise round, I usually get to go again.

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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    Another option for a Beguiler that is a lot of fun is Mindbender. I dunno if you can get into it instead of Swordsage given that neither are Core only, but if you can, its a nice boon. 100' telepathy is really fun to play with, and can help you control your thralls without making verbal commands. It also has the funky benefit of advancing your spellcasting while delaying your Advanced Learning. This lets you learn a higher level spell than you would get from straight Beguiler advancement.

    And its not like the skill investments are terribly bad for a Beguiler. Bluff, Sense Motive, etc, are all things you are probably already taking.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    Alternatively, you can pick up martial study feat and grab shadow jaunt (usable once per encounter), before taking martial stance feat on level 9 (at which point you can pick up a level 3 shandowhand stances, such as the ever useful Dance of the Spider).
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    Heighten spell is an obvious choice. Also, depending on what spells you pick with advanced learning, buying maximize spell or empower spell might also be quite sweet.
    Totally getting something nice here, when the time is right that is.

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    I played a level 10 Beguiler in a game a while back, I think my feats were Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Weapon Finesse, and Arcane Strike. That character was the MVP of every fight, and never found himself in a non-combat situation that he couldn't handle, and I never even rolled an attack roll or feint check the whole game. I'll agree that a Beguiler's feats don't really matter at all, so getting passive bonuses like Spell Focus is probably the best thing to do.

    I wouldn't recommend multiclassing, the loss of spellcasting would not be worth it no matter what class you'd be taking. I wouldn't even consider taking a prestige class from core or ToB with a Beguiler, as none of them offer anything better than what you'd already be getting.

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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    Scribe Scroll or Brew Potion. Nothing like investing your unused 1st-level spell slots at the end of the day in more spells tomorrow.

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    Default Re: Core only Beguiler- feats?

    Using feats to get the Shadow Stride and Child of Shadow maneuvers and then taking the Shadow Trickster feat could be neat. It'd be awhile before you had enough levels to qualify, though. At least with Tome of Battle, the thing about everyone having an initiator level of half your levels in non-ToB classes helps a lot.
    Last edited by Waspinator; 2009-04-03 at 01:51 PM.
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