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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Deth Muncher's Avatar

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    Default [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    Background:

    I'm playing a 5th level Sorceror in a Wasteland campaign (the journal is around this board somewhere, but refuses to update when I tell it to. I blame the interwebs.). This character is not optimized by ANY stretch (I've got two of those Scorpion feats from Sandstorm, flawwed to get MWP: Fingerblade, etc), although I'm not entirely retarded (as in, yay for Color Spray, anyone?) This character will, in the near future, be going into Sandshaper. However, in lieu of the Touchstone feat required to do so, the DM has instead said that I need to research them, in game.

    /background

    Now. The Sandshapers in this world are mostly the same as those presented in the book, with the exception that instead of a powerful empire, they're more like a cult. Furthermore, they haven't been seen in an age (hence the necesity to study). Now, this has led me to two possible cohort options when the time presents itself, although both have an inherent flaw, which is that neither class is in the allowed materials - that is, Core + Sandstorm. Now, the DM has said we can go out of the allowed materials, but everything is on a case by case basis. That said, my ideas are: Archivist or Malconvoker.

    Archivist: Fluff-wise, I think the Archivist might be a good choice for me, since my character has to spend a lot of downtime in the library anyway, and seems logical that I could run into an archivist. Not to mention, he might (if the DM provides it) have knowledge on Sandshapers, and thus from there could be persuaded to join into the party.

    Malconvoker: I know it's a hell of a lot of book keeping, but getting an ally who can summon MORE allies is pretty sweet. Plus, it plays into the whole UNLIMITED POWER feel of the Sandshaper.

    Now, problems. Like I said, they're both non-core, which could very well mean that the DM says "Nope. Try again." and then I'm back at square 1. Also, I realized that the Malconvoker is a PrC (I haven't looked at it in a long time), which means I'd have to first have a casting class. But wait! Archivist might could do that. Which, y'know, is great and all, but it means I don't advance the Archivist features, which are nice in and of themselves. And unfortunately, Sorcs. don't qualify until lv. 7, so that's pretty much out for now, although it might fly (dunno how keen the DM is on letting a Sorc. have a Sorc. buddy).

    So. Thoughts? Alternative suggestions, should Archivist/Malconvoker be banned?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
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    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
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    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    A bard could be useful, and might also know something about sandshapers. Plus, the bonuses they give can be nice.

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    Deth Muncher's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    Quote Originally Posted by MeklorIlavator View Post
    A bard could be useful, and might also know something about sandshapers. Plus, the bonuses they give can be nice.
    This is true. Very true, actually. In fact, I almost want to beat my head against something for not thinking about the humble Bard.

    In that particular case, not only is he spffy for me, what with the knowledge and the buffs he can cast, but also spiffy for the party, since he buffs ALL of them.

    If I went bard though, I'd almost certainly have to go Bardarian for his build, so he could sing happily whilst crushing skulls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    Malconvoker is a massive amount of paperwork. Mine was 6th level when I left her, and she had 8 pages, front and back, of monster statblocks. Plus her spell list. And my build plan. Too much work for a Cohort, IMHO, especially since summonings scale poorly. Even if he is only 2 levels behind the party, he'll be summoning monsters at 2 full spell levels behind what they should be. It's not worth it. Go with a buffer Archivist or a Bard, instead.

    IIRC, there is a thread in the first couple of pages still for a knowledge-monkey Archivist/Loremaster. Your DM will probably eat it up as a plot-info dispenser.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Malconvoker is a massive amount of paperwork. Mine was 6th level when I left her, and she had 8 pages, front and back, of monster statblocks. Plus her spell list. And my build plan. Too much work for a Cohort, IMHO, especially since summonings scale poorly. Even if he is only 2 levels behind the party, he'll be summoning monsters at 2 full spell levels behind what they should be. It's not worth it. Go with a buffer Archivist or a Bard, instead.

    IIRC, there is a thread in the first couple of pages still for a knowledge-monkey Archivist/Loremaster. Your DM will probably eat it up as a plot-info dispenser.
    Well, there we are.

    And as an added bonus of being a Sandshaper, I'll have a bunch of Buff spells (fo' free!) at my disposal, so I can dish some out if need be.

    I'm thinking if I can get Chain Spell for him, so much the better, so my Archie can dish out the buffs to everyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    Hi

    Got a Wiz 1/Beguiler 10 for a Cohort for my Mystic Theurge. (Clr/Warmage). Fits in nicely.

    All those buffs, and with Unsettling Enchantment all those Mass Whelms reduce target's AC & Attacks for one round. Legion of Sentinels isn't to be sniffed at, either.

    Oh - and gets all those nice buffs like Mage Armour, Blur, Haste, Invis, Silence, Gtr Invis, etc.

    Cheers
    Paul H

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    Deth Muncher's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    Saaaaay...would it be possible to get, in lieu of a regular guy with class levels, a monstrous cohort? I mean, Dragons are out of the question (I've asked) but something else might not necesarily be. Like, oh, a Beholder (well, more likely a Gauth, at our level. And actually, I might even have to wait to take one of those, since it's a 6 HD critter) or something along those lines? I just wonder if maybe nabbing something with nifty abilities might be helpful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    Saaaaay...would it be possible to get, in lieu of a regular guy with class levels, a monstrous cohort? I mean, Dragons are out of the question (I've asked) but something else might not necesarily be. Like, oh, a Beholder (well, more likely a Gauth, at our level. And actually, I might even have to wait to take one of those, since it's a 6 HD critter) or something along those lines? I just wonder if maybe nabbing something with nifty abilities might be helpful.
    It's not called Gain Animal Companion, so I'd say no. It's fluffed like a "wanted: suckers followers" sign that your PC has. Beholders don't tend to read signs. But if you have a flexible DM, there's no reason why not. Find a monster whose CR is roughly equivalent of what your Cohort would have and you're golden. Not HD, because monster HD sucks a lot more than character levels.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    It's not called Gain Animal Companion, so I'd say no. It's fluffed like a "wanted: suckers followers" sign that your PC has. Beholders don't tend to read signs. But if you have a flexible DM, there's no reason why not. Find a monster whose CR is roughly equivalent of what your Cohort would have and you're golden. Not HD, because monster HD sucks a lot more than character levels.
    Point taken. But that's not to say I wouldn't WANT the critter to take class levels later on. As in, if I managed to get a Gauth, I'd totally have it take, like, Archivist levels or something. Or Sorceror. Actually, those have the potential to become busted kinda fast.

    But what if, say, I were to try to get a humaniod monster? Like an Ogre? I mean, I'm a squishy bag of flesh, shouldn't I be trying to recruit a meatshield for myself?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    But what if, say, I were to try to get a humaniod monster? Like an Ogre? I mean, I'm a squishy bag of flesh, shouldn't I be trying to recruit a meatshield for myself?
    Nobody said Leadership cohorts had to be LA0. I suppose technically you could get monstrous humanoids. I'd draw the line there, myself. No undead, no aberrations, no magical beasts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Nobody said Leadership cohorts had to be LA0. I suppose technically you could get monstrous humanoids. I'd draw the line there, myself. No undead, no aberrations, no magical beasts.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Nobody said Leadership cohorts had to be LA0. I suppose technically you could get monstrous humanoids. I'd draw the line there, myself. No undead, no aberrations, no magical beasts.
    Actually, Libris Mortis: The Book of Bad Latin has the specific feat Undead Leadership, as well as Draconomicon having Dragon Cohort.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    Draconic cohort is wasted for a 6th level character. You can get more powerful dragons as familiars.

    If you're looking for a meatshield, giants do surprisingly badly. An ECL 6 Ogre has only 29 hit points. Level adjust is a problem and d8 HD aren't great. A dwarven warblade would do better.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    If the book is available there is few things that can beat an Artificer cohort. Since it will end up equating to quite a huge quantity of magical items compared to the normal
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    Default Re: [3.5]Good Cohorts? (That is, class-wise, not the alignment.)

    @dspeyer - Point taken.
    @Arcane_Snowman - Already asked, already denied.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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