Shutting Down Manifesters

[Thrawn183]

So I have 2 requests. The first is to make sure that my rules interpretation is correct: Namely that psionic manifesting is a purely mental action meaning that it can be done in a grapple with a concentration check and even when paralyzed.

The second is how exactly, assuming my rules interpretation is correct, do you go about causing problems for such a character? I can throw things against the rest of the party that require teamwork, but I'm having some problems with the psion in my party.

I don't want to just throw golems and such at her, because that completely shuts her down. What would be ideal is how with arcane casters if you grapple them, their allies can try to get them out of the grapple and back into the fight.

I definitely had an advanced gelatinous cube get destroyed because the paralyzed psion just blasted away at the thing from inside of it. Granted, I said it didn't get a reflex save against an attack originating from inside of it, but its not really like it would have made its save anyway. I dunno, I'm just feeling like I'm having some problems putting the party in a situation where anybody is more useful than the psion.

[Kantolin]

What do you use besides grapple to stop a spellcaster? I assume most things would work.

Try someone countering his powers. While this frequently will stop him, it will also give the party something to focus on.

Also, uh. What was the rest of the party doing to the advanced gelatinous cube? /not/ power attacking the heck out of it? :P

[ShneekeyTheLost]

From the SRD:

Grappling or Pinned

To manifest a power while grappling or pinned, you must make a Concentration check (DC 20 + the level of the power you’re manifesting) or lose the power.

Entangled

If you want to manifest a power while entangled in a net or while affected by a power with similar effects you must make a DC 15 Concentration check to manifest the power. You lose the power if you fail.

Furthermore...

Psionics-Magic Transparency

Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions or magic item descriptions, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics.

When the rule about psionics-magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.

Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.)

All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.

The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Psicraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura).

Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.

AND

There is always running him out of PP. Without PP, he cannot Pew-Pew, only QQ.

So, either trick him into blowing tons of PP before the big important fights, or have casters try to disrupt him. And Grappling most certainly DOES make it harder to manifest.

[MisterSaturnine]

There is always running him out of PP. Without PP, he cannot Pew-Pew, only QQ.

So, either trick him into blowing tons of PP before the big important fights, or have casters try to disrupt him. And Grappling most certainly DOES make it harder to manifest.

This is a good point. You could set him up against some other psionic people, and have one be a psion focused on draining him of power points.

[Thrawn183]

Also, uh. What was the rest of the party doing to the advanced gelatinous cube? /not/ power attacking the heck out of it? :P

Well, at that point the party was composed of a pure battlefield control sorceror, the psion, a warblade and a rogue/red mantis assassin. The psion and the warblade were both paralyzed by the gelatinous cube, though the warblade got a few good shots in first. The sorceror was teleporting people up to their move speed to get them out of the cube. The assassin didn't do squat, but I'm OK with that because he took out the entire previous encounter with a single action.

As far as the concentration checks go, the fact that the psion has, quite reasonably, maxed concentration and that her powers are low level just highly augmented means that she's failed one out of all of them. I mean, I can't even use silence effects or make some mcguffin which must be held in both hands. There's almost no way of stopping her from casting without outright killing her, and most of the ways that I can think of, such as fear effects, would be a lot more effective on the low will save characters anyway.

[NEO|Phyte]

Yes, manifesters can manifest in a grapple. As for causing problems, while grappling isn't as big a lockdown as it is for a caster, it DOES cause issues if they don't have a big enough modifier to not need to roll. This is in addition to grappling meaning any sneak-attackers that aren't in the grapple get free shots at your kidneys.

As for other fun things, take a look at some of the psionic monsters. Have a few brain moles try and get a meal out of him, bonus points if they infect him with cascade flu in the process.

[RTGoodman]

Ooh, ooh, pick me! Use cascade flu! I always thought it was a very cool disease. Brain Moles are good, as NEO said, and if you need a bigger challenge, my Brain Mole Mind Burrower came in 2nd in WotC's 2008 UnCon Monster Contest.


EDIT: I see now that NEO|Phyte beat me to actually suggesting cascade flu, but still - use it.

[Zaq]

Stunned creatures cannot take actions, even mental ones. Likewise a dazed creature. If you want her out of the picture, aim a couple stun or daze effects her way. Why do you think the cranium rat swarm is so ridiculously nasty for its CR?

[Alleine]

As far as the concentration checks go, the fact that the psion has, quite reasonably, maxed concentration and that her powers are low level just highly augmented means that she's failed one out of all of them

Ok, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way. If you spend 19 PP to augment a 1st level power, it is no longer 1st level. Now it's ninth level. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

[arguskos]

Actually, it still is it's original level (was readin' the XPH the other day; still surprised at that rule, actually).

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, with PsiMagic Transparency, a simple Lesser Globe of Invulnerability can seriously ruin a psion's day.

[Belobog]

If you're really stretching for options, there's the Catapsi power, which drains extra PP from psions who fail a Will Save within a projected area. Even comes in amulet form, for those non-psionic people.

Of course, if you really want to be nasty, there's always Apopsi, which removes powers from her mind permanently if she fail a Fort save. Reversing it takes the psionic equivalent of Wish or brain surgery, but even then, it becomes irreversable after a week.Then again, I don't recommend this tactic. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Also not a fan of PsiMagic Transperency, but then again, I'm not a fan of mixing the two tastes to begin with.

[Alleine]

Well dang. That's messed up.

You could easily throw psionics back in the player's face. Have a psionic assassin go after them. Walking through a crowded street when they get smacked by something. No one can tell where it's coming from, unless they make a spot check to see the guy who seems to be staring at them. Then make a few more spot checks to see all the other people that are staring at them for acting strangely.