How to best use Persistent Spell?

[Tubercular Ox]

What spells are worth persisting? I've searched here and gleemax and I can find lists of spells that can be persisted but not lists of spells that should be persisted. Divine Power is the only one I see when people ask.

There was a thread just a short while ago ("Pimp my buffer") and someone offered to go into it but asked how many turn attempts were available, and then it all disappeared into the ether. Let's just say between 30 and 50, what advice can you give from there? Any source.

[Advocate]

I recommend starting with Recitation and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful. It makes everyone awesome, so few will complain. That's 14.

Now, what are you doing? CoDzilla? Add Divine Power, Righteous Might, Divine Favor, and maybe 1 or 2 others. GMW, Magic Vestment, Superior Resistance last all day without Persist. That should really be enough.

Something else (specify)?

[Douglas]

Persistent Mass Lesser Vigor takes care of all the party's healing needs (out of combat) for the entire day.

[Jack_Simth]

Let's see... 30 Turn attempts would be 4 persisted spells. I actually made a list for this, once...

Now, some of this depends on level, party makeup, and sources permitted, but assuming all sources, and you can cast basically any Cleric spell up to 9th level...

1) Mass Lesser Vigor (or Vigorous Circle). Fast healing 1 (or 3) for the entire party all day. The skillmonkey and meatshield will thank you, as they're fresh for each and every battle (assuming you don't get Dispelled, but see notes for helping with that).
2) Holy Aura (or whichever Alignment aura you prefer): +4 Deflection to AC, +4 Resistance to saves, protection from the more annoying will saves (continuing mind control effects - Charm person, Dominate Monster, Magic Jar, and so on), SR 25 vs. opposite aligned spells or spells from opposite-aligned outsiders, and opposite aligned critters that attack you in melee make a save or suffer certain effects. For the entire party.
3) Righteous Wrath of the Faithful. +3 Morale to attack/damage, plus an extra attack on a full attack (as per Haste, nonstacking). Again, for the entire party.
4) Recitation. +2 or +3 Luck to AC, saves, and attacks (+2 for most, +3 if they worship your deity)... again, for the entire party (noticing a pattern to my recommendations?)

That's 28 turn attempts. If you go five Persitent spells (35 Turn attempts), add:
5) Elation. +2 Morale to Strength and Dex, and +5 feet to your Move score. Stacks with essentially everything - and again, for the entire party.

Optional:
Depending on party makeup, there's a few others you'll want (either replacing some of those above, or in addition to them if you've got the turn attempts to burn):
No Party Trapfinder: Detect Magic (Arcane Sight, if you can swing it, but it's not on the Cleric list by default) and Find Traps. You may want to prepare these in normally persisted spell slots (6th and 8th - 9th, if you're using Arcane Sight from a domain or some such) if you're short on Turn Attempts. Also load up on Summon Monster spells, or if you can fit it into your build, the Summon Elemental Reserve Feat and a 6th+ spell slot to power it.

There will be many who'll recommend the Big Three - Divine Favor (+X Luck to Attack/damage), Divine Power (+6 Enhancement to Strength, +1 temp HP/caster level, BAB = Character level), and Righteous Might (+1 Size category, +4 Size bonus to Str, +2 Size to Con, +2 Enhancement to Natural Armor, and some DR/Alignment) - and while they are good, they're strictly personal - there's a pretty fair chance that unless you're playing with very good optimizers, you'll outshine the melee specialists at melee doing this. Avoid the Big Three.

Notes:
If you use a lot of DMM(Persist), expect a lot of Dispel effects to come your way. To combat this, you'll want to try and, pick up:
1) A Ring of Enduring Arcana (+4 to your caster level for purposes of resisting Dispels on your spells)
2) A Strand of Prayer Beads that includes a Bead of Karma (+4 Caster Level for 10 minutes - use just you cast your persisted spells)
3) Orange Prism Ioun Stone (+1 Caster Level - check with your DM to see if they self-stack or not)
4) A Ring of Spell Battle (1/day free counterspell or spell redirect - use for those pesky Disjunctions)
Net effect: +9 to your caster level for purposes of attempted dispells, and you can redirect some of the more painful ones elsewhere.

There is some debate as to whether or not Time Stop qualifies for Persistent Spell. While as a Cleric, you can't use the 24-hours so gained to prepare new spells (Divine casters have a specific time of day in which they need to spend an hour in prayer to get their spells - which doesn't come around when time is stopped) it can still be really useful to suddenly have an extra day to yourself.

Edit:
Oh yeah - and don't forget the spells that don't need Persisting. Heroes' Feast, Magic Vestments, Greater Magic Weapon, Superior Resistance, and the like. Spam them liberally around the party.

[Raenir Salazar]

I like Persitent Haste myself, try to stack onto Expiterious Retreat for 150% speed boost AND +1 attack per round.

[Jack_Simth]

I like Persitent Haste myself, try to stack onto Expiterious Retreat for 150% speed boost AND +1 attack per round.

Do note, though, that Haste and Expiditous Retreat are a little harder to come by for a Cleric - they take a domain choice, usually.

[monty]

I like Persitent Haste myself, try to stack onto Expiterious Retreat for 150% speed boost AND +1 attack per round.

Assuming you mean Expeditious Retreat, that won't work for two reasons (if it's some spell I've never heard of, then only one reason). Both spells provide an enhancement bonus to speed, so they won't stack. Also, Haste is a close-range spell, and therefore not a valid target for Persist. Swift Haste is personal, but that's a ranger spell, so it wouldn't be likely to be persisted outside of a weird specific build.

Also, at the risk of threadjacking, what good arcane spells are there for Persist? I need some ideas for my cheesy sorcerer.

[Tubercular Ox]

Wow, thanks. This is great.

I'm not "doing" anything, actually. Just playing with numbers and stuff cuz it's soothing. I'm looking at an Ur Priest/Sublime Chord/Fochlucan Lyrist build, but I just found out I can't DMM Persist arcane spells, so it's not as exciting as I was hoping. Still, it's pretty cool.

The large amount of multiclassing means my natural BAB is low, and I'd hate to be left high and dry by a bad dispel, so it probably means I'm hanging back as a buffer/debuffer. Still trying to decide on my bard/sublime chord spell list, too. If it were possible, I might try to add a minor Batman in. I guess that would be a Robin? Nightwing? I don't know enough about what makes batman, but I'm reading the handbook and learning a lot, which is part of the point.

Is it weird to design characters with no intention of playing them? There's gotta be other people like that, else we wouldn't have some of the crazy builds we have, right?

[monty]

Is it weird to design characters with no intention of playing them? There's gotta be other people like that, else we wouldn't have some of the crazy builds we have, right?

I have about a dozen extra character builds lying around, because I have a habit of changing my mind several times before a game. For the game I'm playing in soon, I've gone through a barbarian, a rogue, and a wizard (all complete or mostly complete builds) before settling on the sorcerer I have now, and there's no guarantee I won't change it again.

[The Glyphstone]

One of the best (and cheesiest) combos I've seen is the use of Ocular Spell - attach it to any spell you like and it becomes eligible for Persistent Spell due to its fixed range of 60ft. Costs an extra 3 turn attempts, but now you can Persist that Haste spell.

[krossbow]

Wasn't there a way to combine persistent spell with a couple feats and a non-damaging spells to make an eternal vortex of pure destruction?

[The Glyphstone]

I don't know about eternal, but massive lulz ensue when you persist a Shapechange on yourself, take Shambling Mound form, then persist an Ocular Thunderhead on yourself as well. Enjoy +1d4 CON per round for the next few hours, then kick something's rear into next Sunday with your insane amount of HP.

[Draz74]

but I just found out I can't DMM Persist arcane spells, so it's not as exciting as I was hoping. Still, it's pretty cool.

No, but if you're a Sublime Chord, you can take Metamagic Song (RoS) and freely Persist low-level arcane spells that way.

[Tubercular Ox]

I don't know about eternal, but massive lulz ensue when you persist a Shapechange on yourself, take Shambling Mound form, then persist an Ocular Thunderhead on yourself as well. Enjoy +1d4 CON per round for the next few hours, then kick something's rear into next Sunday with your insane amount of HP.

I wanted to persist Shapechange, but it's arcane. As an Ur Priest the character doesn't get domains. Does Southern Magician work or does it have to be Alternative Spell Source from Dragon magazine? Is there another way? Every level is accounted for, and I'd be hard pressed to find more feats.

[Nohwl]

Is it weird to design characters with no intention of playing them? There's gotta be other people like that, else we wouldn't have some of the crazy builds we have, right?

...

I wanted to persist Shapechange, but it's arcane

i build characters when i get bored. one of the ones im working on is a warforged dragonborn Conjurer 1 / Archivist 5 / Singer of Concordance 2 / Sacred Exorcist 1 / Dweomerkeeper 10 / Hierophant 1. (gets 18 levels of archivist spellcasting, i can either lose divine reach from hierophant and get another level of singer of concordance for 19 levels of casting, or i can keep divine reach.)

play an archivist with a level dip into sacred exorcist, you get most of the arcane spell list as divine spells, so you can persist them.

[Jack_Simth]

As an Ur Priest the character doesn't get domains.

Check out the Contemplative, same book as the Ur-Priest.

[Alleine]

Wasn't there a way to combine persistent spell with a couple feats and a non-damaging spells to make an eternal vortex of pure destruction?

Consumptive field and greater consumptive field?
Then go for a walk in a rat infested barn or something. Buy a bunch of chickens, etc.

[monty]

Consumptive field and greater consumptive field?
Then go for a walk in a rat infested barn or something. Buy a bunch of chickens, etc.

Or an orphanage. 'Cause you're EEEEEEVIL.

[Otodetu]

Dare i ask how one goes fourth to gain silly amounts of turn attempts?

I know about extra turning, more cha, and nightsticks, but that's where my knowledge stops... (single class cleric in mind)

[lvl 1 fighter]

Suel Aracanamach into Incantrix.

Persist Wraithstrike.

[Tubercular Ox]

So you guys have clued me in on what to look for. What do you guys think of Dirge? Bard 6, learn it through sublime chord then take whatever tricks you need to persist it.

All enemies within 50' make a fort save each round or take 2 str and 2 dex damage that round.

I mean, buffing's nice, but so's debuffing.

[jcsw]

No, but if you're a Sublime Chord, you can take Metamagic Song (RoS) and freely Persist low-level arcane spells that way.

Or in fact, just take southern magician from races of faerun. This is what the feat is made for.

[Tubercular Ox]

Also, at the risk of threadjacking, what good arcane spells are there for Persist? I need some ideas for my cheesy sorcerer.

Well, only in Eberron...
Unfettered Heroism in Races of Eberron. 1 free action point per round. Consider the Action Boost feat.

I can't see any reason why it doesn't stack with itself. Persist it twice, take the feat Action Surge. Get an extra move or standard action per round. Haste 3.0

This is so godawful stupid that they really should have spotted it and put in language to keep it from stacking with itself. I'm hoping I'm just too tired and can't see it right now, even though it's probably right there in big bold letters. They have a paragraph that starts with "You must have at least one action point to cast Unfettered Heroism and I thought for sure they were going to segue into "It costs an action point to cast this spell," but no, apparently that clause is only there to keep the NPCs out...

It is a little risky. If it gets dispelled, you become fatigued. If the second one gets dispelled, a fatigued character that gets fatigued... becomes exhausted. So you're praying for the spell(s) to give out just before you go to bed. Then you become exhausted, cast both the spells again, sleep for 1 hour to become fatigued, then sleep for 8 more to become rested, then spend an hour preparing your spells. Still cheap at twice the price.

[Nohwl]

warforged are immune to fatigue and exhaustion, and because its a bard spell, an archivist can cast it. (divine bard varient makes all bard spells divine.)

[krossbow]

Or an orphanage. 'Cause you're EEEEEEVIL.

Actually, fighting an evil cleric as he constantly retreats through a populated city, using hit and run tactics to sap your resources while gaining virtual unlimited hp from the victims around him would be an incredibly epic battle.

[jcsw]

Well, only in Eberron...
Unfettered Heroism in Races of Eberron. 1 free action point per round. Consider the Action Boost feat.

I can't see any reason why it doesn't stack with itself. Persist it twice, take the feat Action Surge. Get an extra move or standard action per round. Haste 3.0

This is so godawful stupid that they really should have spotted it and put in language to keep it from stacking with itself. I'm hoping I'm just too tired and can't see it right now, even though it's probably right there in big bold letters. They have a paragraph that starts with "You must have at least one action point to cast Unfettered Heroism and I thought for sure they were going to segue into "It costs an action point to cast this spell," but no, apparently that clause is only there to keep the NPCs out...

It is a little risky. If it gets dispelled, you become fatigued. If the second one gets dispelled, a fatigued character that gets fatigued... becomes exhausted. So you're praying for the spell(s) to give out just before you go to bed. Then you become exhausted, cast both the spells again, sleep for 1 hour to become fatigued, then sleep for 8 more to become rested, then spend an hour preparing your spells. Still cheap at twice the price.

Not much point persisting it twice, you can only spend one action point a round. (Says so in ECS)

[Telonius]

No, but if you're a Sublime Chord, you can take Metamagic Song (RoS) and freely Persist low-level arcane spells that way.

Depending on how you read it, a cleric with the Spell domain might be able to Persist up to 5th-level Arcane spells by persisting Greater Anyspell.

[Douglas]

If you want a truly ridiculous list of Persistent Spell abuse, check out this thread. That party has almost unlimited ability to Persist spells, though, so it's not so good as a list of recommendations for someone with more limited ability in that regard. There are also some spells that are normally good choices for Persist that got left out because of not stacking with another spell that was situationally better - for example, Shield of Faith doesn't stack with Sirine's Grace but the latter is dependent on high charisma. It just so happens that an assortment of other buffs meant the entire party had 20+ charisma, so Shield of Faith is for that party useless when Sirine's Grace is up.

[Advocate]

Well, only in Eberron...
Unfettered Heroism in Races of Eberron. 1 free action point per round. Consider the Action Boost feat.

I can't see any reason why it doesn't stack with itself. Persist it twice, take the feat Action Surge. Get an extra move or standard action per round. Haste 3.0

This is so godawful stupid that they really should have spotted it and put in language to keep it from stacking with itself. I'm hoping I'm just too tired and can't see it right now, even though it's probably right there in big bold letters. They have a paragraph that starts with "You must have at least one action point to cast Unfettered Heroism and I thought for sure they were going to segue into "It costs an action point to cast this spell," but no, apparently that clause is only there to keep the NPCs out...

It is a little risky. If it gets dispelled, you become fatigued. If the second one gets dispelled, a fatigued character that gets fatigued... becomes exhausted. So you're praying for the spell(s) to give out just before you go to bed. Then you become exhausted, cast both the spells again, sleep for 1 hour to become fatigued, then sleep for 8 more to become rested, then spend an hour preparing your spells. Still cheap at twice the price.

If you are using that spell, you now have infinite charges on staves and wands via some feat that lets you pay APs instead of charges. Proceed to be an Artificer, and Persist everything under the sun. Have fun.

Also, it really should be one use of APs per round. Otherwise, all the abilities that cost more than 1 AP per use such as Heroic Surge (which I think is in the same book) actually can't be used at all because they cost 2 at once.

[Tubercular Ox]

Also, it really should be one use of APs per round. Otherwise, all the abilities that cost more than 1 AP per use such as Heroic Surge (which I think is in the same book) actually can't be used at all because they cost 2 at once.

Exactly. It says "you can only use action points once in a round. If you spend one or more action points on a special action, you can't spend a point in the same round to improve a die roll, and vice versa." ECS, p. 45.

Even if it didn't say that, the spell reads, "while this spell is in effect, you can use action points more than once in a single round." Races of Eberron, p. 190. The only drawback is the "once this spell ends, whether the duration expires or it is dispelled, you become fatigued." It's possible they thought the fatigue+fatigue=exhausted effect was enough deterrent not to cast the spell more than once per day. Whoops.

And, what? Unlimited wand use? With the right feats, I'm not seeing a reason to persist anything else.