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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Heliomance's Avatar

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    Default Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Bruce Banner, Level 20 Wood Elf
    Stats pre-adjustment: STR 18 DEX 10 CON 16 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 8
    Stats post adjustment: STR 25 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 10 CHA 8

    1: Ranger 1: Great Fortitude (Level 1), Improved Unarmed Strike (Flaw), Endurance (Flaw)
    2: Barbarian 1
    3: Barbarian 2: Frozen BerserkerFrostburn (Level 3)
    4: Fighter 1: Power Attack (Fighter Bonus)
    5: Fist of the ForestComplete Champion 1
    6: BerserkDeities and Demigods 1: Intimidating RageComplete Warrior (Level 6)
    7: Fighter 2: Cleave (Fighter Bonus)
    8: FrostragerFrostburn 1
    9: Bear WarriorComplete Warrior 1: Destructive RageComplete Warrior (Level 9)
    10: Frenzied BerserkerComplete Warrior 1
    11: WildrunnerRaces of the Wild 1
    12: Wildrunner 2: Instantaneous Rage (Level 12)
    13: WarshaperComplete Warrior 1
    14: Warshaper 2
    15-18: Bear Warrior 2-5: Open feat x2
    19: Fist of the Forest 2
    20: Fist of the Forest 3

    Skills from 1st to 10th level: Qualifying for Wildrunner was a pain.
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    1: Handle Animal 2 ranks, Hide 4 ranks, Intimidate 1 rank CC, Knowledge (Nature) 4 ranks, Move Silently 4 ranks, Survival 4 ranks
    2: Survival 3 ranks
    3: Handle Animal 1 rank, Knowledge (nature) 0.5 ranks CC, Survival 1 rank
    4: Handle Animal 1 rank
    5: Intimidate 1 rank
    6: Intimidate 1 rank
    7: Intimidate 1 rank
    8: Knowledge (nature) 0.5 ranks CC
    9: Hide 1 rank CC, Move Silently 0.5 ranks CC
    10: Move Silently 0.5 ranks CC

    Total:
    Handle Animal 4 ranks
    Hide 5 ranks
    Intimidate 4 ranks
    Knowledge (nature) 5 ranks
    Move Silently 5 ranks
    Survival 8 ranks

    Exactly enough to qualify for Wildrunner at 11th level having qualified for all the other PrCs on the way.


    I've not bothered to sort out equipment.

    Forms of rage:
    Rage
    Feral Trance
    Battle Fury
    Frostrage
    Bear transformation
    Primal Scream

    Stats while raging: 59 STR 24 DEX 28 CON 32 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA
    Naked AC normally: 13: 10 +3 CON
    Naked AC while raging: 28: 10 +7 DEX +9 Natural Armour +11 CON -2 Rage -2 Battle Fury -4 Frenzy -1 Size

    Full attack routine: Unarmed Strike +41/+41/+36/+31/+26 2d8+1d4+26 plus 2 claws +36 1d8+24 plus bite +36 2d6+24 plus gore +36 1d8+24 plus Improved Grab, Grapple modifier +46
    Last edited by Heliomance; 2009-02-26 at 06:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Wait, 59 str? How do you do that? Wow.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Looks decent, though it doesn't feel like Banner. It should have an incredible INT score, minimum of 16. Banner is brilliant.

    Personally, I think the best class to really help create the Hulk, include the Banner half, is the homebrew Ultimate Vessel, part of the Ultimate Classes project.
    Last edited by MammonAzrael; 2009-02-26 at 06:19 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Heliomance's Avatar

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Wait, 59 str? How do you do that? Wow.
    Base 18, +2 racial, +5 level based stat bumps, +16 from Rage combined with Bear Warrior, +6 Frenzy, +6 Battle Fury from the Berserk, +2 Primal Scream from the Wildrunner, +4 Warshaper.
    If I'd bothered to sort out equipment, he'd have a Manual of Gainful Excercise +5 and a Belt of Giant's Strength +6, taking his total strength to 70.
    Last edited by Heliomance; 2009-02-26 at 06:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Thank you OP. This made me want to pull it out in the campaign we are playing.

    Here ya' go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    I am laughing my head off and applauding your tactic genius all at the same time. Bravo, good sir...
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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Bruce Banner, Level 20 Wood Elf
    Stats pre-adjustment: STR 18 DEX 10 CON 16 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 8
    Stats post adjustment: STR 25 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 10 CHA 8

    1: Ranger 1: Great Fortitude (Level 1), Improved Unarmed Strike (Flaw), Endurance (Flaw)
    2: Barbarian 1
    3: Barbarian 2: Frozen BerserkerFrostburn (Level 3)
    4: Fighter 1: Power Attack (Fighter Bonus)
    5: Fist of the ForestComplete Champion 1
    6: BerserkDeities and Demigods 1: Intimidating RageComplete Warrior (Level 6)
    7: Fighter 2: Cleave (Fighter Bonus)
    8: FrostragerFrostburn 1
    9: Bear WarriorComplete Warrior 1: Destructive RageComplete Warrior (Level 9)
    10: Frenzied BerserkerComplete Warrior 1
    11: WildrunnerRaces of the Wild 1
    12: Wildrunner 2: Instantaneous Rage (Level 12)
    13: WarshaperComplete Warrior 1
    14: Warshaper 2
    15-18: Bear Warrior 2-5: Open feat x2
    19: Fist of the Forest 2
    20: Fist of the Forest 3

    Skills from 1st to 10th level: Qualifying for Wildrunner was a pain.
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    1: Handle Animal 2 ranks, Hide 4 ranks, Intimidate 1 rank CC, Knowledge (Nature) 4 ranks, Move Silently 4 ranks, Survival 4 ranks
    2: Survival 3 ranks
    3: Handle Animal 1 rank, Knowledge (nature) 0.5 ranks CC, Survival 1 rank
    4: Handle Animal 1 rank
    5: Intimidate 1 rank
    6: Intimidate 1 rank
    7: Intimidate 1 rank
    8: Knowledge (nature) 0.5 ranks CC
    9: Hide 1 rank CC, Move Silently 0.5 ranks CC
    10: Move Silently 0.5 ranks CC

    Total:
    Handle Animal 4 ranks
    Hide 5 ranks
    Intimidate 4 ranks
    Knowledge (nature) 5 ranks
    Move Silently 5 ranks
    Survival 8 ranks

    Exactly enough to qualify for Wildrunner at 11th level having qualified for all the other PrCs on the way.


    I've not bothered to sort out equipment.

    Forms of rage:
    Rage
    Feral Trance
    Battle Fury
    Frostrage
    Bear transformation
    Primal Scream

    Stats while raging: 59 STR 24 DEX 28 CON 32 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA
    Naked AC normally: 13: 10 +3 CON
    Naked AC while raging: 28: 10 +7 DEX +9 Natural Armour +11 CON -2 Rage -2 Battle Fury -4 Frenzy -1 Size

    Full attack routine: Unarmed Strike +41/+41/+36/+31/+26 2d8+1d4+26 plus 2 claws +36 1d8+24 plus bite +36 2d6+24 plus gore +36 1d8+24 plus Improved Grab, Grapple modifier +46
    I love it, but Frenzied berserker: a little dangerous.

    What Str would he had (+gear added) at level 10?

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Berserk is possibly even more dangerous than FB. You can't end Battle Fury early, and the save to avoid attacking allies and innocent bystanders once you've run out of enemies is DC 15+the number of rounds already spent in Fury. If you run out of targets you run around attacking rocks and trees and such. And the guy's not going to make the save. The build involves so much multiclassing that his base Will save is +2, unless you're using fractional saves. Rage adds +3 to that, but with a will save of only +5 you're not going to be making those saves. With normal saves, his are +31/+10/+2. In Rage, they become +40/+16/+5.

    Fractional saves get you +14/+8/+6 unraged, +23/+14/+9 raged.

    Hmm, at level 10, subtract 2 STR and 6 DEX from Wildrunner, 4 STR, 4 CON and the gore attack from Warshaper, 8 STR, 4 CON and Improved Grab from Bear Warrior, and drop the Unarmed Strike damage one step from Fist of the Forest.

    Incidentally, how many natural attacks does this thing actually have? Because Bear Warrior grants two claws and a bite, Wildrunner grants a bite, and Fist of the Forest grants two claws and a bite. Do they stack, or not?
    Last edited by Heliomance; 2009-02-26 at 08:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Frosty's Avatar

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    You'd want to take the feat Steadfast Determination. You already have the Endurance feat, so why not? You use your CON instead of your WIS mod for Will saves.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Heliomance's Avatar

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Ooh, how handy. Can't fit it in before 12th level though - every feat up to that point is a prereq.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

    Avatar by Rain Dragon

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    Starbuck_II's Avatar

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Berserk is possibly even more dangerous than FB. You can't end Battle Fury early, and the save to avoid attacking allies and innocent bystanders once you've run out of enemies is DC 15+the number of rounds already spent in Fury. If you run out of targets you run around attacking rocks and trees and such. And the guy's not going to make the save. The build involves so much multiclassing that his base Will save is +2, unless you're using fractional saves. Rage adds +3 to that, but with a will save of only +5 you're not going to be making those saves. With normal saves, his are +31/+10/+2. In Rage, they become +40/+16/+5.

    Fractional saves get you +14/+8/+6 unraged, +23/+14/+9 raged.

    Hmm, at level 10, subtract 2 STR and 6 DEX from Wildrunner, 4 STR, 4 CON and the gore attack from Warshaper, 8 STR, 4 CON and Improved Grab from Bear Warrior, and drop the Unarmed Strike damage one step from Fist of the Forest.

    Incidentally, how many natural attacks does this thing actually have? Because Bear Warrior grants two claws and a bite, Wildrunner grants a bite, and Fist of the Forest grants two claws and a bite. Do they stack, or not?
    Berserk seems safer than Frenzy as Frenzy can activate without your wish. Berserk at least waits till you want to do it.

    I'm pretty sure you can't make 4 claws attacks unless you have 4 actual claws.

    So you'd be limited to 2 Claw and a bite, but whichever deals more damage.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    have your friendly caster cast Girallon's Blessing on you for more claws?

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Berserk and Frenzied Berserker fit the character so well though.

    *Overheard after an early days Avengers adventure*

    Cap: Well done team, we really mopped the floor with those villains.
    Thor: Forsooth!
    Iron Man: I did most of the work, but I must say, I was impressed with the Hulk here.
    Ant Man: Yeah, did you see him punch that gu----HRRRK
    *Hulk then throws Ant-man into Thor, and begins trying to unscrew Iron Man's head like a pop bottle as Captain America feebly works the Hulk's back like a toddler kicking a tree*
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    I think it fits pretty well.
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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Personally, I think some sort of homebrew lycanthrope would be more appropriate for this.
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    Sarah, human gestalt druid/totemist
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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Meh, the aim wasn't to create the Incredible Hulk, I just called him Bruce Banner as a joke. The aim was to see how many different forms of rage I could stack onto one character.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Wow, that is more rage than I thought I would ever see in one character. But I really like it, even though I don't understand most of it (don't own much beyond the player's handbook, and a borrowed monster manual, which I still need to return).

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Meh, the aim wasn't to create the Incredible Hulk, I just called him Bruce Banner as a joke. The aim was to see how many different forms of rage I could stack onto one character.
    You missed Book of Exalted Deeds. But then like Rage Mage it just lets you cast while raging (BoED has a better Rage Mage).

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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Wood elf, honestly? Bleh.

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Heliomance's Avatar

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Elf is required for Wildrunner, and Wood Elf is the best Elf variant for a barbarian.

    If anyone can come up with some equivalent of Stoneblessed that can make you an elf, it could be useful - then you could make it a Shifter for another form of rage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Elf is required for Wildrunner, and Wood Elf is the best Elf variant for a barbarian.

    If anyone can come up with some equivalent of Stoneblessed that can make you an elf, it could be useful - then you could make it a Shifter for another form of rage.
    Why not Dragonborn Wood Elf: Gives bonus to Con, though you get -2 Dex.
    Water Wood Elfs would get +2 Str, -2 Int, +2 Con.

    Fire Wood Elfs: +2 Str, -2 Cha

    Dragonborn Water Wood Elfs: +2 Str/ +4 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Int.
    Dragonborn Fire Wood Elfs: +2 Str/ +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Cha.

    You still count as a an elf (though you don't get the elven abilities).

    Elemental/Dragonborn: is there anything you don't improve?

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    I don't suppose there's an elegant way to shoehorn Totem Rager in there, is there? Technically it modifies your existing Rage (like, say, Eye of Gruumsh) rather than adding a new one (like Frenzied Berserker), but it's a neat capability. Probably requires too much investment, but it's a thought.

    Bloodclaw Master gains Shifting if you don't already have it. It'd take a feat (TWF) and a dip into Warblade or Swordsage to qualify, but if you're counting Shifting as a kind of rage, there it is.

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    You could also spend two feats in order to learn Iron Heart Surge maneuver from ToB. No problem since you'll end the rage when you want.
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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Base 18, +2 racial, +5 level based stat bumps, +16 from Rage combined with Bear Warrior, +6 Frenzy, +6 Battle Fury from the Berserk, +2 Primal Scream from the Wildrunner, +4 Warshaper.
    If I'd bothered to sort out equipment, he'd have a Manual of Gainful Excercise +5 and a Belt of Giant's Strength +6, taking his total strength to 70.

    Turning into a bear replaces the bonuses from Rage or Frenzy with your bear form bonuses. So there's no reason to take Whirling Frenzy or a level of Frenzied Berserker. And Bear Warrior requires +7 BAB for entry. And you can't use magic weapons if you're in bear form using natural attacks.

    This chart from one of my previous threads might be of help to you:

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    Barbarian: Ferocity or Rage
    Battle Howler of Gruumsh: Rage
    Bear Warrior: Improves your Rage, Wildshape into a Bear
    Bloodclaw Master: Shifting
    Celebrant of Sharess: Fury of the Tigress (same effect as Rage for one round per Cleric level, I'm not sure if it stacks).
    Chameleon: Rage, Ability Boost, Human or Doppelganger only
    Champion of Gwynharwyf: Stacks with Barbarian levels for Rage
    Druidic Avenger: Rage, Wildshape
    Eye of Gruumsh: Stacks with Barbarian levels for Rage, Orc or Half-Orc only
    Firestorm Berserker: Stacks with Barbarian levels for Rage
    Fist of the Forest: Feral Trance, +4 Dex and a bite attack
    Frenzied Berserker: Frenzy, really powerful, really really difficult to control
    Half-Orc Paragon: Rage, Half-Orc Only
    Nature's Warrior: Variable
    Passion Cleric Domain: Rage
    Singh Rager: Fury, 3.0 - Oriental Adventures
    Warshaper: +4 Str and Con when Wildshaped
    Weretouched Master: Variable, Shifter only
    Wild Runner: Primal Scream, Elf or Half Elf only
    Last edited by Person_Man; 2009-02-27 at 02:10 PM.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    what book is the battle howler of Gruumsh from?
    "78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature."

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Turning into a bear replaces the bonuses from Rage or Frenzy with your bear form bonuses. So there's no reason to take Whirling Frenzy or a level of Frenzied Berserker. And Bear Warrior requires +7 BAB for entry. And you can't use magic weapons if you're in bear form using natural attacks.
    I agree, Whirling Frenzy doesn't work nor Frenzied with Bear.

    Yes, but you can use weapons because Wildrunner says you can (says you combine bite with natural attacks). I mean, who would use the bear's bite? Nah, you use the other bites.

    Personally, I'm weary of Frenzied berserker: you are likely to have at most 6-12 Will save for most of battle. And you can accidently activate Frenzy.



    Personally, I perfer this build:
    Bruce Banner (Dragon born Fire Wood Elf) Ranger 1/Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/ Fist of Forest 1/Berserk 1/Wild runner 1/Bear Warrior 1/Wild runner 1/

    Fully Raging (using every thing than can combine + 2 Str guantlet)
    Fully Raging all out: Str 38 Dex 20 Con 30 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 10.

    But the idea is awesome.
    With Indomitable Fortitude (or whatever that PHB 2 that adds Con to Will saves) Berserk will rarely fail save by 9th.

    Feats:
    1) Great Fort
    2) Improved Unarmed Strike
    3) Power Attack
    4) Endurance
    5) Extra Rage: +2 Rage
    6) Indomitable Fortitude (forget exact name): Use Con for will saves. No fail on Nat 1.

    Granted, it could be earlier if I used flaws.

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    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Turning into a bear replaces the bonuses from Rage or Frenzy with your bear form bonuses. So there's no reason to take Whirling Frenzy or a level of Frenzied Berserker. And Bear Warrior requires +7 BAB for entry. And you can't use magic weapons if you're in bear form using natural attacks.
    Turning into a bear replaces the bonuses from Rage OR Frenzy. It is entirely possible to read that as replacing rage and keeping frenzy or vice versa. And I have +7 BAB - everything except Berserk there is full BAB. Tha's why I don't take it until 9th level.

    Also, I'm not using magic weapons anyway. If you note the attack progression, I'm using natural attacks and unarmed strikes.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Chicago/Boston
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

    So I have a character in a campaign I'm running who's actually pretty much playing this, except that he's a shifter and went for barbarian/warblade/weretouched master, so he has martial maneuvers. It's moderately obscene - last session he came up against a big high-hp monster he could actually hit 90% of the time (only AC 30), and did something like 300 damage with a full attack.

    And he's only 14th level.
    Last edited by CthulhuM; 2009-03-01 at 08:15 AM.
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