Rake and Power Attack

[Zergrusheddie]

There are a few creatures that while they have an opponent pinned, they can do rake and claw damage automatically. Would it be possible to take Power Attack to increase this damage? You could deal loads of damage by automatically doing 3d6+45 damage to a pinned opponent.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yes, rake requires a melee damage roll.

[Zergrusheddie]

Ahh, specifics have escaped me yet again!

Fleshraker, Page 40 of the MM3:
"...opponent is considered grappled and pinned beneath the fleshraker. On each subsequent round, the fleshraker can deal automatic claw and rake damage with a successful grapple check against a pinned opponent."

Best of luck
-Eddie

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Ahh, specifics have escaped me yet again!

Fleshraker, Page 40 of the MM3:
"...opponent is considered grappled and pinned beneath the fleshraker. On each subsequent round, the fleshraker can deal automatic claw and rake damage with a successful grapple check against a pinned opponent."

Best of luck
-Eddie

I really had trouble remembering any creature that did what you described.

[Zergrusheddie]

I really had trouble remembering any creature that did what you described.

Fleshraker that infamous?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Fleshraker that infamous?

Fleshies and cats are what first comes to mind, but they require grapple checks, not free damage.

[Zergrusheddie]

Fleshies and cats are what first comes to mind, but they require grapple checks, not free damage.

So adding Power Attack damage on the 'automatic' Claw/Rake damage would probably be illegal than?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

So adding Power Attack damage on the 'automatic' Claw/Rake damage would probably be illegal than?

Yes, PA does not add to your grapple damage.

[Zergrusheddie]

Yes, PA does not add to your grapple damage.

Thanks a bunch; was just curious.

Best of luck
-Eddie

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

As-written, Power Attack adds to melee damage rolls, and a rake, claw, etc. is a melee weapon. Even in a grapple it deals melee damage, as there's no such thing as grapple damage and it certainly doesn't deal ranged or spell damage, so power attack would indeed apply. WotC has officially stated that Power Attack doesn't get added when making a grapple check to deal damage, because it gets something for nothing rather than due to any wording of the rules. This was after WotC printed the Frost Giant Mauler in Frostburn, which does exactly that: it power attacks on grapple checks to deal damage. It's a clear case of monsters-can-do-it-but-PCs-can't. It's ultimately up to the DM whether or not to allow it to work, but if he disallows it then he needs to be sure not to break his own rule by allowing monsters to do it.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

As-written, Power Attack adds to melee damage rolls, and a rake, claw, etc. is a melee weapon. Even in a grapple it deals melee damage, as there's no such thing as grapple damage and it certainly doesn't deal ranged or spell damage, so power attack would indeed apply. WotC has officially stated that Power Attack doesn't get added when making a grapple check to deal damage, because it gets something for nothing rather than due to any wording of the rules. This was after WotC printed the Frost Giant Mauler in Frostburn, which does exactly that: it power attacks on grapple checks to deal damage. It's a clear case of monsters-can-do-it-but-PCs-can't. It's ultimately up to the DM whether or not to allow it to work, but if he disallows it then he needs to be sure not to break his own rule by allowing monsters to do it.

I do not remember reading anything in the entry about power attacking on grapple checks, but even if that is the case it is not uncommon for writers to be unaware of some of the rules.

It is possible to use PA in a grapple if you use teh attack your opponent option rather than opting for damage through grapple checks.

[magic9mushroom]

The obvious solution is to subtract PA from grapple checks as well, seeing as it is an opposed attack roll. Note that this means they can break your pin and pin you much more easily, as well as being less likely to hit yourself.

[Muad'dib]

I do not remember reading anything in the entry about power attacking on grapple checks, but even if that is the case it is not uncommon for writers to be unaware of some of the rules.

It is possible to use PA in a grapple if you use teh attack your opponent option rather than opting for damage through grapple checks.

The only problem there being that you would have to use your fists to do that as you can only use light weapons in a grapple. You would have to take one of the feats or abilities that allows otherwise or grow yourself a natural weapon to power attack with anything other than your fists.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

The only problem there being that you would have to use your fists to do that as you can only use light weapons in a grapple. You would have to take one of the feats or abilities that allows otherwise or grow yourself a natural weapon to power attack with anything other than your fists.

Yes that is an obstacle, but not if you have tiger or fleshraker paws.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Reading back over the original question, a creature with Improved Grab can only use Grapple checks to deal damage with the natural weapon they grabbed with, though Constrict is an exception to this. In a grapple, you can only use one type of weapon, so a creature with 2 claws and a bite would only be able to use one of those while grappling, and a character cannot use two-weapon fighting in a grapple. Rake is an exception to this, a creature can make Rake attacks in a grapple in addition to the one other type of attack they use, and Rake attacks always use an attack roll rather than a grapple check.

For example, a Lion charges, pounces, claws twice, bits, rakes twice, and Improved Grabs with its bite. The next round, it can make a grapple check to deal bite damage and it can make rake attacks. It cannot make an attack roll to deal bite damage, it cannot make grapple checks to deal rake damage, and it cannot use its claws at all.

As another example, a Giant Octopus has grappled an opponent. Each round, it can make two grapple checks due to its +6 BAB, the second check being at -5 from the first, dealing tentacle plus constrict damage on each successful check. It does not get to use more than one tentacle during a grapple because the limit is one weapon, not one attack routine.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

It is still possible to conduct the grapple normally even if you have improved grab and all teh other grapple options are thus still available to the improved grappler, but the normal restriction you outline still apply of course, i.e. only attack with one weapon etc.