[3.5] Smoking Eye Template

[Zipikatwa]

Anyone who's played Shackled City AP knows what I'm talking about, for everbody else, I'll sum it up.

Here's what you get:

+1 insight bonus on all attack rolls
+1 Caster Level
Special Quality that makes you treated as evil for the purposes of spells (Unholy Blight wouldn't affect me, even though I'm chaotic good)
+1 insight bonus on all saving throws

And a couple more abilities that don't really matter, mechanic wise (morphic potential over a layer of Abyss once I hit 20th lvl, an eye that's constantly on fire), and you are considered a Lord over a layer of Abyss.

My question is - is this worth +1 LA?

[Tam_OConnor]

Nope. In 3.0, when they published it, maybe. Are you using the Dungeon issue or the Shackled City Compendium? I don't know if the template is actually different, but it might be interesting to compare.

This is why you have the warrior type gain the template. The inevitable question is: how do you make it worthwhile? Quick fix: +2 Con, Wis and Cha and +1 insight bonus to AC and damage. At least with that, the template isn't a detriment.

[Zipikatwa]

Oh, and I forgot to add, I'm a spellcaster. And we're using the Dungeon version. Is hardcover any different?

[Tam_OConnor]

Couldn't say myself about the differences.

Heck, if you're a caster: just have it grant +1 level of existing spellcasting class, with the insight bonus to attacks and saves, the alignment trait and the fluff as extras. It's probably mechanically weaker than most prestige class options available at 7th level, but the delicious flavor...

[tyckspoon]

My first reaction was 'yes', although it's on the weaker end. Mostly for the Insight bonuses, which are otherwise a little hard to come by.. but on second thought, Tam is right. There's nothing in there that you couldn't acquire just by taking an actual level. To-hit bonus? Warrior level. Caster level? Casting class. Saves? Get Parrying put on your weapon. Being immune to things like Unholy Blight and Blasphemy is nice, but certainly not worth a level. I would either buff it up to make it worth an LA or possibly have it work like being a Dragonborn- the template removes your normal racial qualities, except for stat adjustments, and substitutes in the benefits of being a Smoking Eye.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

There are 3 basic types of characters when it comes to dealing with LA:

Casters-lose Caster Level, .5 spell level, and # of spells. Whatever you take has to boost your spells at least that much, and little does.

Skillmonkeys-Take a -1 penalty to all of your important skills, as well as lose the warrior benefits. Hurts, but for a large enough benefit, sometimes worth it

Warriors-Lose 1 BAB, 1HD, and class benefits. They suffer the least, but it's still bad to lose essentially 2 feats(Imp Toughness/Wep Focus), so be careful.

[Battleship789]

I assume you've completed this part of the adventure but I'll spoiler it in case someone hasn't played the adventure path:

Spoiler

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I've played in the Dungeon version of the AP and my assassin got TKed into the geyser by the half fiend...

List of Benefits

I seem to recall that the template also gives you a % chance to be brought back to the Abyss layer when you die with another % chance that you lose the template. But I might be wrong, it's been 3 or 4 years since I played the adventure.

Heck, if you're a caster: just have it grant +1 level of existing spellcasting class, with the insight bonus to attacks and saves, the alignment trait and the fluff as extras. It's probably mechanically weaker than most prestige class options available at 7th level, but the delicious flavor...

I am in agreement with Tam here. If you can get the +1 level of existing spellcasting class to fly with your DM, its probably worth keeping, since this change will make it mechanically viable, if not completely optimal. And the fluff is pretty awesome.

[Zipikatwa]

I seem to recall that the template also gives you a % chance to be brought back to the Abyss layer when you die with another % chance that you lose the template. But I might be wrong, it's been 3 or 4 years since I played the adventure.

It just teleports your body there and you have 20% chance of losing the template. I fail to see what's the point of that ability.

I am in agreement with Tam here. If you can get the +1 level of existing spellcasting class to fly with your DM, its probably worth keeping, since this change will make it mechanically viable, if not completely optimal. And the fluff is pretty awesome.

And if I can't...?

The situation is that I played Sing of the Smoking Eye chapter of Shackled City as a stand-alone adventure some years ago, and now I'm playing the full Shackled City AP. And I had no idea that Sign of the Smoking Eye is a part of AP, I realized that when we started the chapter. So, yeah, I have an unfair advantage, but not intentionally. And I have a wizard, so I'm wondering whether I should get that template or no.

And I'm not sure if +1 to basically everyhing is worth it being late one level in obtaining new level of spells...

[Battleship789]

It just teleports your body there and you have 20% chance of losing the template. I fail to see what's the point of that ability.

I couldn't remember if the template rezzed you or not when you arrived at the plane. As it doesn't, then the ability doesn't have much of a point, other than your body will be easy to find for a ressurection...

And if I can't...?

The situation is that I played Sing of the Smoking Eye chapter of Shackled City as a stand-alone adventure some years ago, and now I'm playing the full Shackled City AP. And I had no idea that Sign of the Smoking Eye is a part of AP, I realized that when we started the chapter. So, yeah, I have an unfair advantage, but not intentionally. And I have a wizard, so I'm wondering whether I should get that template or no.

And I'm not sure if +1 to basically everyhing is worth it being late one level in obtaining new level of spells...

If you can't get the change then it probably isn't worth it. Being set back a level in spellcasting is quite a hit, especially at the level you would be in the campaign (8 or 9ish if I remember correctly). With the full spellcasting option, it becomes viable but not necessiarly optimal. If you plan on going straight wizard then the template is worth it (with the spellcasting option) but if you are PrCing into Incatatrix or some other low level prerequisite prestige class then it is probably better to leave the template alone and let another member of the party or the half fiend get it, while advancing your PrC.

[Telonius]

I believe the point of the teleport was plot-based.

Spoiler

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Basically, there are a few other things besides you with the Smoking Eye template. Orbius Valantru was one of them; some of the lieutenant-level baddies you face will also have smoking eye templates. As part of the adventure's end, you're meant to seize control of Occipitus yourself. If you don't go back, there are forces who have an interest in resurrecting such creatures and ensuring that Occipitus stays a place of evil. Just having the Smoking Eye doesn't necessarily mean you're the ruler of Occipitus, you have to exert your power over the plane.