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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Jul 2008

    Default Tome of Battle Gestalt

    Not sure what to put on the other side of this. I was thinking Warlock, as the invocations give quite a bit of utility and have a 24 hour duration.
    Starting level 3, Build so far:

    Stats (after Template): Str 18, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 10

    Crusader 1 || Draconic Template LA
    Crusader 2 || Cloistered Cleric 1
    Crusader 3 || Warlock 1?

    Feats: Improved Initiative (Time Domain), Blind-fight (Darkness Domain), Extra Granted Maneuver, Able Learner (Human), Knowledge Devotion

    Draconic Template gives +2 STR, CON, CHA, Darkvision, Lowlight Vision, Natural Armor 1, +4 vs sleep and paralysis.

    Any suggestions as to a class that would fill the support half better then a warlock, without the massive bookkeeping of a wizard? Maybe PsyWarrior?

    Pretty much any book, including Psyonics.
    Last edited by ColdSepp; 2009-03-03 at 01:46 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Temp.'s Avatar

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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    More Cloistered Cleric? Use Unearthed Arcana's Spontaneous variant if you want to cut down on book keeping. Good skills, good saves, good spells for a melee character... I can't think of a reason not to take it except maybe a crippled Wisdom. And you have the first level done already. If you want feats, go into Ordained Champion (Channel Spell works really well with ToB; this is a pretty good option even if you aren't starving for feats).

    Totemist, maybe? Lots of benefits there for high Con that you aren't going to get anywhere else. It doesn't work so well with Strikes, though.

    I don't like Psychic Warrior because saves are redundant and PP are rough without heavily prioritizing Wisdom. If the alternative is Fighter or something though, go for it.
    Last edited by Temp.; 2009-03-03 at 01:40 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    I assume Ordained Champion is in Complete Divine?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    Hey fellow "Unbreaking Wave" applicant looking for a build :)

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
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    Dec 2004

    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    Bard would be a good choice. You already have the Dragonblood subtype, so get Dragonfire Inspiration from Dragon Magic along with Song of the Heart (ECS), a few Badge of Valor (MIC), and pick Inspirational Boost (SC) as soon as you get 1st level spells.

    Another idea would be to use Dragonfire Adept from Dragon Magic, it gets invocations similar to a Warlock but with a breath weapon in place of Eldritch Blast. Get Entangling Exhalation (RotD) with Quicken Breath and Recover Breath from the Draconomicon, and entangle as many foes as possible with a swift action as often as you can.

    Beguiler (PH2) would be a superb choice, especially if your group needs someone with trapfinding.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by ozgun92 View Post
    Hey fellow "Unbreaking Wave" applicant looking for a build :)
    Hello!

    Beguiler. I have heard good things, I'll take a look. That might take some stat reallocation, I think. I know Bard is Cha based, which is my lowest stat.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    There is a *LOT* of synergy between Crusader and Bard. With Dragonblooded, you get Dragonfire Inspiration. Couple this with Snowflake Wardance, and you have one seriously bad dude.

    If you are wanting something a bit more... non-CHA based, keep going with Cloistered Cleric. Use the Spontaneous Variant from the SRD. You get your domain spells as known, which means casting them multiple times a day, in addition to a selection of spells as large as the Sorcerers, without the suck of waiting an extra level to get your next level of spells. You'll have a large list of spells you know, but it will be a finite list, which will vastly reduce Wizard-like bookkeeping.

    However, Warlock isn't a bad choice. Charisma isn't strictly required for them, as it only affects DC's. Get things that don't have a DC, and you will do just fine.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdSepp View Post
    Cha based, which is my lowest stat.
    An odd choice for a Crusader ...
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
    Douglas's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    An odd choice for a Crusader ...
    Not really. Charisma gives a bonus for Smite, which is a puny 1/day, 2/day if you're very high level, and will saves. That's it. Oh, and a very small number of maneuver save DCs, none of which are for particularly good maneuvers. It is very slightly better than wisdom if you consider only the Crusader side, but not by much and that's the only stat it's superior to. Then you look at Cloistered Cleric on the other side of the gestalt...
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    Not really. Charisma gives a bonus for Smite, which is a puny 1/day, 2/day if you're very high level, and will saves. That's it. Oh, and a very small number of maneuver save DCs, none of which are for particularly good maneuvers. It is very slightly better than wisdom if you consider only the Crusader side, but not by much and that's the only stat it's superior to. Then you look at Cloistered Cleric on the other side of the gestalt...
    Pretty much why I did it. Smite isn't why I am taking Crusader, and CCleric already has good Will saves.

    How about Cloistered Cleric into Church Inquisitor? I can start that PrC early (I think, just need Zone of Truth, which is a second level spell), and it is full casting, which is really all I need. It seems to have some nice immunities, and if I get a Wisdom Amulet I can get up to 9th level spells eventually.

    I am liking the sound of Bard, but doesn't Snowflake Wardance work best with two weapon fighting? And, do my inspirations effect myself? The game seems to be solo for a while, then joining a group.
    Last edited by ColdSepp; 2009-03-03 at 05:08 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    AslanCross's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdSepp View Post
    I assume Ordained Champion is in Complete Divine?
    It's in Complete Champion. Think of it as a warpriest crossed with a duskblade. It has slightly better caster progression (3/5 as opposed to the Warpriest's 5/10), has less levels, and even allows you to trade your domain granted powers for bonus Fighter feats. IMO it would be better with Warblade, though, since at least Warblade qualifies for Fighter feats.

    OrdChamp's spell channeling is a move action as opposed to the duskblade's standard (attack) action.

    You could also just go with Ruby Knight Vindicator if you want to break out the cheese. Easy to change the fluff for the RKV anyway.


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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by AslanCross View Post
    It's in Complete Champion. Think of it as a warpriest crossed with a duskblade. It has slightly better caster progression (3/5 as opposed to the Warpriest's 5/10), has less levels, and even allows you to trade your domain granted powers for bonus Fighter feats. IMO it would be better with Warblade, though, since at least Warblade qualifies for Fighter feats.

    OrdChamp's spell channeling is a move action as opposed to the duskblade's standard (attack) action.

    You could also just go with Ruby Knight Vindicator if you want to break out the cheese. Easy to change the fluff for the RKV anyway.
    RKV isn't my thing. The plan is Master on Nine on the Crusader side. It's the cleric side I am unsure of. I looked at Ordained Champion, and it's a possibility, though more suited to a Warblade then a Crusader, as you mentioned.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
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    Dec 2004

    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    The feat Extra Smiting from Complete Warrior makes your Smite-Anything-I-Want worthwhile.

    Beguiler gives good skill points and Will save, and a spell list to handle any situation that your sword won't solve. Plus you'd be able to use the feat Arcane Strike (CW), making it a very strong choice.

    With Bard you won't have any poor saves, you'll be able to use Dragonfire Inspiration to get extra dice of damage, and you'll have good skills and spells. You could even go into Sublime Chord, and with a dip into Spellthief (CV) you'd have Trapfinding and be able to get the feat Master Spellthief (CS) for caster level shenanigans.

    If you're going to boost your Cha score, consider picking up two or four levels of Arcane Duelist, and note how the Dexterous Attack ability interacts with two-handed Power Attack.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    Actually, Awesome Smite + Ordained Champion adds a TON of utility. Wizard got hit Displacement on? AWESOME SMITE! Demon got the funky DR? AWESOME SMITE! Enemy won't sit down and shut up? AWESOME SMITE! KNOCK YO PUNK BLEEP DOWN!

    All at the low low price of a turn undead attempt with makes it useful in multiple encounters per day. Ordained Champ is awesome.

    Why take Extra Smite for +2 Smites/day when you can take Extra Turning for +4 Smites/day!
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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Proven_Paradox's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    Heh, sounds like you're trying to make a draconic version of the character I've been running in that game for a while now.

    I've had a lot of success running my crusader//law incarnate if you're open to using stuff from MoI. The 'sader side gives me a lot of endurance and access to some decent damage, while the incarnate side gives me some out-of-combat versatility--there would have been no hope of completing that quest without the Silvertongue Mask meld for example--and some passive but useful combat buffs--Lucky Dice turned a couple of misses into hits, and my Soulspark Familiar was kicking almost as much ass as I was until that wizard unshaped it.

    Other than that, I really don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said, other than mentioning that it'd be helpful if you'd post what kind of ability scores you hope to put out there.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Battle Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by Proven_Paradox View Post
    Other than that, I really don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said, other than mentioning that it'd be helpful if you'd post what kind of ability scores you hope to put out there.
    Check the first post again, they are already there.

    Other then that, though, I think I will try MoI. I liked the book when I read, but never got a chance to play it.
    Last edited by ColdSepp; 2009-03-03 at 08:00 PM.

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