[3.5] Touch attacks and sneak attack

[goram.browncoat]

I take the following to be true:

1) weaponlike spells can critical (20) and apply sneak attack
2) touch spells require a touch attack and are thus weaponlike spells
3) touch spells can be deliverd as part of a normal unarmed strike. in this case they deal the standard attack damage and the spell damage

Lets take Jimmy the rogue1/cleric1 with 10str andimproved unarmed strike:

Jimmy can punch for 1d4(bludg)
Jimmy can inflict light wounds for 1d8+1(neg nrg)
Jimmy can inflict punch for 1d4(bludg)+1d8+1(neg nrg)

But when Jimmy is flanking or catching an opponent flatfooted:
Jimmy can punch for 1d4+1d6(bludg)
Jimmy can inflict for 1d8+1+1d6(neg nrg)

What if Jimmy punch inflict while flanking though? Does he get SA dice on his punch or on his inflict (or even both, though that seems wrong)
1d4+1d6(bludg)+1d8+1(neg nrg) OR
1d4(bludg)+1d8+1+1d6(neg nrg) OR
1d4+1d6(bludg)+1d8+1+1d6(neg nrg)

[Fixer]

Your boy there gets no BAB, so I will give you the breakdown.

• Regular Attack (punch)
  Target: Normal AC (with a +0 BAB, you probably won't hit)
  Damage:
  With flanking (or other condition that allows sneak attack) & using inflict spell: 1d6(SA)+1d8+1(inflict)+1d4(unarmed)
  Without flanking & using inflict spell: 1d8+1(inflict)+1d4(unarmed)
• Touch Attack (no punch)
  Target: Touch AC (usually much easier to hit)
  Damage:
  With flanking (or other condition that allows sneak attack) & using inflict spell: 1d6(SA)+1d8+1(inflict)
  Without flanking & using inflict spell: 1d8+1(inflict)

[goram.browncoat]

My boys bab or chance to hit doesnt matter, Jimmy is just a simple representation of my problem, not a player character. If it makes you happier then Jimmy can be a wizard/incantatrix with arcane disciple feat that constantly has hunters eye and polymorph(kelvezu) running for massive sneak attack along with wraithstrike for touch attacks and divine power for big bab .. but thats really not as handy as the simpler version :)

With flanking (or other condition that allows sneak attack) & using inflict spell: 1d6(SA)+1d8+1(inflict)+1d4(unarmed)

Yes I get that he gets sneak attack but what i dont know is which part of the attack the SA applies to. This makes a big difference because the 1d6 SA damage is either negative energy with a save for half or bludgeoning but subject to DR.

My guess would be its part of the punch and thus bludgeoning, but im not sure.

[Dyllan]

Yes I get that he gets sneak attack but what i dont know is which part of the attack the SA applies to. This makes a big difference because the 1d6 SA damage is either negative energy with a save for half or bludgeoning but subject to DR.

My guess would be its part of the punch and thus bludgeoning, but im not sure.

I'm fairly certain your guess is right.

When you choose to deliver a touch attack with an unarmed strike, the attack becomes a regular melee attack (no longer a touch attack, armor applies, etc). Sneak attack damage is always the same type as the base damage for the attack (ie, a flaming longsword does sneak attack as slashing, not flaming). Since your base attack here is an unarmed strike (as supported by the fact that your attack modifiers are based on unarmed strike, not on your touch attack), the additional sneak attack damage would be the same as your unarmed strike.

I hope I explained that clearly.

[Person_Man]

Dyllan is correct. The Sneak Attack damage would be physical, because the source of the attack (your punch) is physical. If you made a touch attack to cast Inflict Minor Wounds, then the damage would be negative energy damage, because the source of the attack was negative energy damage. I'm pretty sure that it's covered in Complete Arcane under Weaponlike Spells, and probably in the FAQ as well. I'll look it up later to be sure.

[ericgrau]

You make the touch as part of casting the spell, as a single standard action. Or you can cast the spell then make the touch later, as two standard actions. In that case, IIRC, the rules say even an unarmed attack will discharge it. I think that's where the unarmed attack option comes from. So I think using an unarmed strike to discharge it also takes 2 actions. And a good attack bonus and a feat.

You can however sneak attack with a touch well enough, as others explained.