shadows in 4E?

[Kol Korran]

hey all. i'm new to DMing in 4E, and am preparing for a campaign. as part of it the adventurers are supposed to be attcked by the darkness surrounding them (as an unnatural occurance), unless they reach some safehavens.

i thought of using shadows. (similar to the 3.5 version) problem is- i can't find no shadows on the 4E MM. i was wondering if i have missed it, or there is some other source they're in? if not- does anyone know of homebrew shadows?

all help will be appreciated of course...

[ColdSepp]

Maybe refluffed Wraiths?

[RTGoodman]

What level are we talking? Here's a few ideas from the D&DI Compendium, with sources.

-Dark Creeper (Level 4 Skirmisher) - Monster Manual**
-Wraith (Level 5 Lurker) - Monster Manual
-Dark Stalker (Level 10 Lurker) - Monster Manual
-Dread Wraith (Level 25 Lurker) - Monster Manual

-Wisp Wraith (Level 1 Minion) - Open Grave**
-Moon Wraith (Level 7 Soldier) - Open Grave
-Nighthaunt Slip (Level 12 Minion) - Open Grave
-Caller in Darkness (Level 19 Elite Soldier) - Open Grave

-Shadow Spirit (Level 4 Lurker) - RPGA "Into the Shadowhaunt" adventure**
-Shadow Hulk (Level 4 Brute) - RPGA "The Black Knight of Arabel" adventure


**These would be my personal suggestions, depending on level. Just "reskin" as necessary.

[Hzurr]

I'd recommend going with some version of the wraith, because their ability to drain healing surges goes nicely with the "Shadows that sap away your strength" schtick.

[Artanis]

Here's an idea: instead of a monster, what about stuff from the traps/hazards part of the DMG? Basically, I imagine creating a trap/hazard (or hell, even just reskinning one that they already have) that causes damage in a certain area when triggered. But it never stops, instead sticking around and keeping the area dangerous. Then you have another trap/hazard farther along, which triggers after the first one has been on for X amount of time, making the damaging area effectively grow. Then a third one and a fourth one and so on.

In practice, what you'd wind up with is the terrain "attacking", and the dangerous stuff advancing towards the party. Describe it as the shadows attacking and advancing (respectively), and there ya go



Edit: Some more ideas.

Instead of going for "shadowy" monsters, I notice there's a lot of monsters that can duplicate (or at least get close) to the combat effect you want and would work well if simply "reskinned".

Swarms are one option, since their entire method of combat is to enter a square and start damaging. A whole bunch of swarms that you describe as "moving shadows" (or whatever) advancing in front of a completely-obscuring terrain effect (which you describe as the shadows, just not the actively attacking part) would work pretty well.

Some sort of caster enemy who can lay down zone (particularly wall) effects that damage and totally obscure would work also.

A reskinned Shambling Mound also comes to mind.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I actually ran into the same problem; turns out that Level Drained Wraiths (per DMG rules for raising/lowering levels) works just fine. Crank them down by up to 5 levels to taste.

It worked just fine - and freaked the hell out of my PCs

[Kol Korran]

thansk for the ideas everybody. i too was checking wraiths, but i was aimingfor monsters for a level 1-2 party, and masses of them. i was sort of looking for shadowy level 1-2 minions mostly...

didn't know about the raising/ lowering rules, so thank for that oracle hunter (by the way, i might be stealing that nickname for a hero turned villain in my campaign. there are several oracles that meet him/her)

liked the "terrain attacks the PCs" idea artanis, as well as the "swarms of shadow". i think i'll incorporate these as well (the swarms maybe at a bit of a higher level as the shadows will be a recurring theme for the first chapter of the campaign). the "trap" might be overcome with uses of the religion and arcana skills... i like that- a minor skill challange in the encounter.

i think i'd go with weakening attacks instead of healing surge drian Hzurr though i'll need to think of it some more.

rtg0922-wisp wrath, shadow spirit and shadow hulk all sound like things i'm looking for, but i need to see them. unfortunatly, i do not have the open grave books and RPGAs, and it will take ages for my store to get them. any info on them online?

thanks again all. that will do nicely.

[TheOOB]

If you want to be cheep, take any monster you like thats a little weak for the party, give it the ability that makes it take half damage, and call it a shadow.

[Oracle_Hunter]

didn't know about the raising/ lowering rules, so thank for that oracle hunter (by the way, i might be stealing that nickname for a hero turned villain in my campaign. there are several oracles that meet him/her)

Feel free to steal, though know that I stole it from somewhere else.

WARNING - Don't read this comic. It will drive you insane and/or snarky.

Anyhow, Raising/Lowering monster levels can be found on DMG 174. Since Wraiths are LV 5, you should be able to turn them into LV 1 Lurkers without issue.

There don't appear to be "rules" for converting monsters to minions, but after looking at the Goblin section, here's how I'd convert one into a minion:

Spoiler

Show

- Remove all powers aside from Shadow Touch and Shadow Glide; minions don't get resists, regeneration and so forth. Keep insubstantial just for movement reasons.
- Take the maximum damage the Wraith can do, and divide by 2 - that's the damage the minion does on a hit. Add 1 point when the Shadow has CA
- Divide the XP it is worth by 1/4

That looks like about it. Follow all the other minion rules and you're golden.

[kieza]

- Take the maximum damage the Wraith can do, and divide by 2 - that's the damage the minion does on a hit. Add 1 point when the Shadow has CA.

I generally just use minimum damage when minionizing a monster. But then, I've got some variant rules and guidelines for creating them in the first place.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I generally just use minimum damage when minionizing a monster. But then, I've got some variant rules and guidelines for creating them in the first place.

But that'll make them too weak to be a threat even when they do hit. The reason minions can be terrifying is that deal consistently deal a moderate amount of damage per hit - it you ignore minions too long, the can do a lot of damage.

I got that rule by comparing the Goblin Cutter (LV1 Minion) with the Goblin Blackblade (LV 1 Skirmisher). Both have identical defenses, are similarly equipped, and do extra damage when they have CA.

A Goblin Cutter does 4 damage per hit; 5 if he has CA.
A Goblin Blackblade does 1d6+2 per hit and an additional d6 if it has CA

I haven't compared it across all monsters, but it seems like a reasonable guideline.

[horseboy]

hey all. i'm new to DMing in 4E, and am preparing for a campaign. as part of it the adventurers are supposed to be attcked by the darkness surrounding them (as an unnatural occurance), unless they reach some safehavens.

You are prepared for a lot of this, right? Cause I can see the party quickly loosing focus as this exceeds even the number of Monty Python quotes for the night. You're going to need some way of keeping them from getting terribly silly.

[Kol Korran]

good take on the minions conversion oracle hunter. i'll use your suggestions.

i looked through the decreasing/ increasing rules, and i think i might need to add a few changes as most of the reason for the wraith being level 5 is it's special abilities, not just the basic stats.

i think i'll keep the shadows insubstantial and allow them a save to see if they are hit or not. that would simulate the "half damage" quality. not exactly by the rules but it would still work, and freak my players out.

oh, and horseboy, my players are a fairly serious bunch, who are more likely to get in the mood and terror of the situation, then laugh about it. that said- they ARE players, so anything could happen. so they'll yell "i attack the darkness" a few times and be amused. all good. (i doubt that they know that rather infamous movie though- i'm the only one who actually read forums and look through materials. they just come to play and that's it).

thanks again for the help. it would take some time ofr the campaign to start, but i will probably open a campaign log here on the forums to keep you all posted...

kol.

[Oracle_Hunter]

i looked through the decreasing/ increasing rules, and i think i might need to add a few changes as most of the reason for the wraith being level 5 is it's special abilities, not just the basic stats.

i think i'll keep the shadows insubstantial and allow them a save to see if they are hit or not. that would simulate the "half damage" quality. not exactly by the rules but it would still work, and freak my players out.

Sounds good, though I wouldn't worry about the special abilities much - weakened isn't a useful debuff for a minion to have, and pretty much all of their other special abilities are totally moot when applied to a minion.