Swordsage/Wizard--General tips?

[Collin152]

So, for a currently-hypothetical game in the future, I plan to play a swordsage/wizard going into the Abjurant Champion prestige class. All details about the game are pretty much mutable and indefinate at this point, including the begining level and all that jazz, but I was wondering if any of y'all have any tips or advice, or even build suggestions for this thing.
I'm particularly interested in manuever selection. I"m not sure at all what to do there; no experience with ToB, you see.
Please and thank you.

[Mushroom Ninja]

Personally, I'd Go Wizard/Swordsage/Jade Phoenix Mage/Abjurant Champ. I think you should get 9th level spells by 20th level.

If you aren't against the inherent cheese, I'd be a conjurer and take abrupt jaunt.

[Glimbur]

Jade Phoenix Mage instead? It's a PrC in Tome of Battle based around combining magic and martial maneuvers.

[Draz74]

The problem with JPM is that its associated disciplines are Desert Wind and Devoted Spirit. So you'll have to be careful in manuever selection so that you don't end up with an abundance of weak DW maneuvers. Fortunately DW has some that are good. But you'll probably want to stay away from DW as long as you can, when you're taking actual SS levels.

[Collin152]

Gears have been switched; The current build skeleton is now Warblade 4/ Wizard 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Knight Phantom 9.
Anything to say to that?

[Meat Shield]

Nothing except that you may be drowning in slightly less MAD. As it is, you still need Int, Str, Con, and Dex won't hurt. At least you got rid of the Wis dependency.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Gears have been switched; The current build skeleton is now Warblade 4/ Wizard 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Knight Phantom 9.
Anything to say to that?

Not sure what Knight Phantom is. I really recommend taking JPM in an Martial Adept/Wizard build.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Nothing except that you may be drowning in slightly less MAD. As it is, you still need Int, Str, Con, and Dex won't hurt. At least you got rid of the Wis dependency.

Honestly, this is as little MAD as gish builds can get.

And I'm going to continue the recommendations of JPM, particularly over Knight Phantom. I don't have it in front of me, but I seem to recall it being weak on the class features front, with most of them being for flacor like many of the other Five Nations classes.

[Collin152]

To tell the truth, I'm not overly fond of Jade Phoenix Mage for some reason.
Knight Phantom is mostly there because it's still better than Eldritch Knight.

[Nerd-o-rama]

To tell the truth, I'm not overly fond of Jade Phoenix Mage for some reason.

Free metamagic is not to be underestimated, even for a prepared-caster (I recommend JPM much more for Duskblades or other spontaneous guys), nor are high-ML Devoted Spirit maneuvers.

Plus, blowing yourself up for fun and profit.

Knight Phantom is mostly there because it's still better than Eldritch Knight.

But then, bards make better melee gishes than Eldritch Knights.

[Saph]

Gears have been switched; The current build skeleton is now Warblade 4/ Wizard 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Knight Phantom 9.
Anything to say to that?

It's pretty much identical to a build I've been working on. Some advice:

• Take levels in the following order: Warblade, Wizard x2, Warblade x3. Starting with Warblade gives you extra HP and skills, and taking the other Warblade levels later gives you higher-level maneuvers and a 3rd-level stance.
• At level 6 (Warblade level 4, Wiz level 2) you'll have 2 second-level maneuvers, 1 third-level maneuver, and a third-level stance. Pick your third-level maneuver carefully since you're going to be using it a LOT. White Raven Tactics is probably the most powerful but somewhat cheesy, Iron Heart Surge is possibly the most badly worded power in the entire game and thus is wholly dependent on DM adjudication to determine what it does. If you want something less fiddly just go with Soaring Raptor Strike and max your Jump score.
• You'll have very few spare feats. Practiced Spellcaster is essential at level 3, and you'll need Combat Casting for Abjurant Champ. For this reason I'd actually say Eldritch Knight is better than Knight Phantom, as it gives you a couple extra feats to play with.
• In the early game you'll have very few spells, so concentrate on buffs. Shield will probably be your most useful spell, and make sure you've got Expeditious Retreat too. Alter Self is probably the best second-level choice, but may be an issue if your DM has a cheese allergy. Beyond that just keep grabbing buff and movement spells to enhance yourself.

For ability scores I'd go Str first, Int second, Con third. At higher levels Int will be more important than Str, and you'll need Dex too. Grab a +1 mithril twilight chain shirt, or just use Mage Armour a lot, either works.

I don't actually think Jade Phoenix Mage is that great for this build - the schools conflict and JPM loses two caster levels (one of which is right at the start, when you need it the most). With your spells you have so many options anyway that you don't really need the extra class features that Jade Phoenix Mage gives you.

Hope that helps.

- Saph

[Zephyros]

If you wanna give caster prevalence to your build and still use JPM you can try Human Paragon 3/Wizard 2/Warblade 1 and then JPM. You get one extra stat bump to alleviate the MADness. One extra feat to blow on Armored Mage and wear something decent from the beginning without getting milked at the cashier stand (or whatever feat still your choice).

And you enter JPM at +4BAB and CL 4.

On a sidenote one feat I heartily recommend and use on almost any prepared gish is Collegiate Wizard. Gives the extra OOMPH! in versatility.

Also: Be a focused specialist (heck play the build as HP3/Wiz1/MasterSpecialist1/Warblade1) Get Arcane Strike and Arcane StrikeWrath Combo your opponents 3 ways to last week.

[Mushroom Ninja]

I guess you can pick up Str/Dex through Polymorph, so it's not too MAD. But then again, You don't get Polymorph till a relativly high level...

[Darrin]

I don't actually think Jade Phoenix Mage is that great for this build - the schools conflict and JPM loses two caster levels (one of which is right at the start, when you need it the most). With your spells you have so many options anyway that you don't really need the extra class features that Jade Phoenix Mage gives you.

JPM 5 + Abjurant Champion 5 is better than Knight Phantom. It's still 9/10 caster levels, full BAB, only costs 1 feat (Combat Casting instead of Still Spell), adds +7.5 to your initiator level rather than +5, you get three more maneuvers and at JPM 5 you can pick up the Aura of Chaos stance.

[Saph]

JPM 5 + Abjurant Champion 5 is better than Knight Phantom. It's still 9/10 caster levels, full BAB, only costs 1 feat (Combat Casting instead of Still Spell), adds +7.5 to your initiator level rather than +5, you get three more maneuvers and at JPM 5 you can pick up the Aura of Chaos stance.

My main issue with JPM is really that it's just so incredibly flavour-specific. It's a hassle for a DM, too, since he suddenly has to fit a bunch of reincarnating blade magic gishes into his world plus the Souldrake, whatever that is. Abjurant Champ and Eldritch Knight are much more generic.

- Saph