A Dwarven tank (could use help with feats)

[kalt]

Okay well for those of you that browse the forum often you will recall that I was asking about a RSB rather recently. Well apparently my DM doesn't like them and requested that we could use a solid frontliner tank. When thinking tank I immediatly thought dwarf! I wanted to make a very prototypical dwarf, when you think dwarf in heavy armor how would you build it style. I came up with the following build that I think grasps dwarf rather strongly and will be tough as nails as well. So here is the build I ended up settling on.

Barb2/Dwarf paragon 3/Deepwarden 5/pious templar 3/Hammer of Moradin 7

I'm going off of memory alone, but believe that was the general gist of the build. I never really looked through deepwarden past level 2, but that is a pretty solid PrC so I took it through 5 to pick up stubborn mind. Pious templar give mettle and I need it to qualify for Hammer of Moradin. Dwarf Paragon 3 is just solid all around adding lots of goodies. So thoughts on feats would be nice. Don't worry about books, but IIRC I need Iron Will and True believer for certain.

Thanks for your help in advance everyone!

[Telonius]

My first thought there is that it would be a very feat-intensive build. You'll only have seven feats in a 20-level progression, unless you go into Flaws. You'll need to use four of those feats - Endurance, True Believer, Weapon Focus (Warhammer), and Iron Will - on prerequisites for the PrC's. That leaves you with only three left. Power Attack probably goes without saying, so you're down to two.

Here's what I'd do instead to get you some more feats to work with: Ranger3/Fighter2/Barb1/Deepwarden5/etc. That'll get you two bonus Fighter feats, Endurance and a favored enemy (probably orcs or goblins) from Ranger, and still give you the Fast Movement from Barbarian. +2 Con and some random Dwarfy stuff just isn't worth three feats. See if you can get your DM to housrule to allow Hammer Focus instead of Axe Focus on the first level of Dwarf Fighter substitution from RoS. You'd have used the bonus feat on Weapon Focus anyway, it's certainly thematic, and it gives you an extra HP and Know (dungeoneering) as a class skill.

[kalt]

The thing I'm worried about with that build is my DM already thinks I dip a little too often so atleast with Dwarven Paragon I take it all the way through. I'm not really sure how much more flexibility I'm going to have with this if I want to play a build like that. I figure by using fun alternate substitution I'll pick pounce up(using lion totem barb).

Dwarven Paragon does net me +2 Con, +1 saves though, which while not crazy good the con will give me(+1AC) more ac as well, which is a bump and combined with mettle my saves and ability off of save is pretty nice.

Sadly flaws are a no go, but I guess I should make the best out of the 3 remaining I've got.

As another character idea do you think ranger 3/ barb 2/DW2/PT3/EWM2/PT1/OS5/PT2 would be a better match? This while nasty I'm not sure if it is quite as sustaining, yet the adventure arc we are in is Second Darkness (think drow/demon heavy) so casters will be common.

[Ianuagonde]

My dwarven tank is very pleased with the Steadfast Determination feat from PHB 2, which makes Con the stat for your will saves instead of Wis, along with another benefit. It doesn't let you qualify for prestige classes, but perhaps your DM is willing to houserule that the two are interchangeble? My DM let me use Improved Toughness instead of Toughness for Dwarven Defender qualification.

[Frosty]

I think a one level dip into Warblade and then 2 level dip into Bloodstorm Blade would be perfect. A tank usually has issues with enemies just ignoring them and going for the squishies, so why not extend your "melee" range into throwing range?

[Telonius]

If the DM doesn't like dipping, he'll probably shoot down that idea too.

Well, so you have three feats to play with. Power Attack is the most necessary one for you. Take it.

For the other two ... Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper? Deafening Blow and Brutal Strike? Magical Aptitude and Investigator? (j/k )

[kalt]

I was leaning towards Deafining Blow and Brutal Strike as well. Hmm that Occult Slayer build I actually think he would let go. For some odd reason he doesn't like Dwarven Paragon. He is a weird guy his idea of optimization is greatly different from most so determing what he will and won't take is just tough. I can for certain say he doesn't like FR prestige classes, which is what the Hammer of Moradin is in. So between the two builds I listed, which one do you think holds the most potential in the Second Darkness Adventure Arc? Ohh one thing I forgot to mention is we are currently 8th level. The rest of the party is as follows:

RSoP/inquisitor cleric
VoP Githzerai monk (I try not to laugh as well)
Dread Necromancer
Elven Fighter archer

Yes, I'm also aware that we are lacking a good arcane caster and that is what is actually making this campaign a challenge so lets keep it like that.

[Person_Man]

You might want to look at at Frozen Dwarf Hulk Smash!!!

If you're worried about dipping too much, then I suggest Crusader, Totemist, Psychic Warrior. All three make excellent tanks, and can be played strait without multi-classing or PrC. Regardless, I would drop Hammer of Moradin. Although the fluff is awesome, crunch wise it's a mediocre PrC with useless pre-reqs.

For the build you have though, my feat suggestions are Combat Reflexes + Robilar's Gambit, Double Hit, and Anvil of Thunder. Although Anvil of Thunder has some ridiculous pre-reqs, you already have to take Weapon Focus (Warhammer), and you're not going to be able to pull off battlefield control without a reach weapon. You'll probably need flaws and a few Fighter levels in place of the useless Dwarf Paragon levels.

What books are available?

[kalt]

Hmm that Frostrager build is pretty neat. Combat Reflexes + Robilar's Gambit, Double Hit, and Anvil of Thunder is a pretty interesting set as well. Books available are completely open, no Dragonmagazine or 3rd party splat. It really just comes down to DM rule.

[Keld Denar]

I posted a build here a while back that uses an Urgrosh 2handed to get the extra bonuses from EWM's Uncanny Blow and Flurry of Strikes. Build went something like

Ranger1/Barbarian2/Fighter2/Deepwarden2/EWM2/OccultSlayer5/PiousTemplar6

With a 10 int, you have just enough skill points to get into Deepwarden with Ranger as your first level. Ranger1/Fighter2 is better than Ranger3 though, since you get to pick your 2 bonus feats instead of having them assigned to you (blah TWF).

Occult Slayer is there to protect your head from invasion, generally a warriors weakest point, and Pious Templar is there to fill out the build with full BAB and give you a couple neat abilities.

Get an Animated Shield and swing your Urgrosh 2handed like a Greataxe. Sure, the base damage will be slightly lower (1d8 vs 1d12) but having Uncanny Blow (2x +str instead of 1.5x) and the extra attack from Flurry more than make up for the loss of 2 average damage base.

EDIT:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.p...32&postcount=1
Somethign similar to this.

[kalt]

I'm at a work PC so I can't check out what's on that link because it hates their site. I'll have to check it out when I get back in town late this evening and get a chance to see it on my home PC.