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    Thurbane's Avatar

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    Question [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Just an idle point of curiosity: I was reading Planar Handbook recently, and discovered that a suit of Mithril Mechanus Gear armor gives +10 AC and +2 Max Dex before any magical enhancements.

    Is this the "best" non-magical armor in terms of max AC? Obviously, magic, natural armor, touch attacks, deflection bonuses, shields etc. all come into play, but purely in terms of AC potential from a suit of armor (sans-magic), is this as good as it gets?

    And yes, I know AC isn't king in terms of D&D. Mind affecting spells, save or dies etc. all render AC pretty moot at times.

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    No there is other armor that gives more Armor bonus to AC. Unfortunately they also dont give a dex bonus either. Look in RoS
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Mithral Mountain Plate from Races of Stone gives the same AC bonus and Dex bonus

    Its a lot cheaper and lighter than Mountain Plate though

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Mountain Plate also requires an extra Exotic Armor Proficiency feat that no one gets for free, so compare that to the -5' of speed from the Mechanus Gear. Mechanus Gear is infinitely more awesome, so it wins.

    Sure Dwarves are supposed to have all the cool armor, but races of stone failed there, so we'll just have to side with the forces of law.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    I prefer a Glassteel (Races of Faerun) breast plate, because it counts as light armor. It gives +7 AC but allows a max DEX bonus of +5, and ACP of only -1. Works for most DEX-based classes because of the light weight. With a high DEX bonus this comes in the same as the Mithril Mechanus Gear (+12 AC: +7 AC +5 DEX vs. +10 AC +2 DEX).

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Celestial Armor has the best total AC output. 5 Armor & 8 Dex for a total of 13 AC.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Not true on the exotic proficiency. Technically, any class or prc that is "proficient with all armor" is proficient with exotic armors as well.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryRussian16 View Post
    Mithral Mountain Plate from Races of Stone gives the same AC bonus and Dex bonus

    Its a lot cheaper and lighter than Mountain Plate though
    However, you can't run in it, dwarves don't gain the ability to not lose speed in heavy armor, and even making it mithrall won't make it work as medium armor.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Not true on the exotic proficiency. Technically, any class or prc that is "proficient with all armor" is proficient with exotic armors as well.
    Not true. Races of Stone states that you need the exotic feats, or else you are not proficient with them . Additionally, all classes that are proficient with armors usually says "light, medium, and heavy", excluding exotics.
    Last edited by Roderick_BR; 2009-03-08 at 11:03 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Roderick_BR View Post
    However, you can't run in it, dwarves don't gain the ability to not lose speed in heavy armor, and even making it mithrall won't make it work as medium armor
    Huh?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Celestial Armor has the best total AC output. 5 Armor & 8 Dex for a total of 13 AC.
    How is this the "Best Non Magical Armor"?
    Celestial Armor

    This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine ...
    Please try to stay on topic.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    The Dex bonus is a mundane statistic. Non-magical (say, Disjunctioned) Celestial Armor is a +5/+8 as I outlined, therefore having the highest total AC bonus out of all non-magical armors.

    EDIT: Presumably.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2009-03-08 at 03:08 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Mithral Celestial Armor ftw. =)
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Mithral Celestial Armor ftw. =)
    By description, it's already Mithril; no applying it twice ;)

    EDIT: Lookey, I was totally wrong. No mention of Mithril. Gawd, I have to learn things by heart again - I'm getting sloppy.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2009-03-08 at 03:34 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    The Dex bonus is a mundane statistic.

    EDIT: Presumably.
    That's quite a stretch. Normal chainmail has a max DEX bonus of only +2. Getting another +6 without magic is unprecedented in D&D. Mithral, for instance, only gives +2 from the special material. It seems more likely that the extra +6 is mostly (or entirely) from magic.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by jcsw View Post
    Huh?

    ---
    Another factor to consider:
    Tooth of Savnok in tome of magic grants anyone the dwarf-no-movement-speed-decrease thing.
    Short version: Mountain plate sucks. Check the description in the Races of Stone, it even gives the stats of a mithril mountain plate, it doesn't count as medium armor.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    You can "pimp" AC bonus and max dex bonus of an armor through non magical means. With the Artisan Craftsman (IIRC the name) feat from dragon magazine.

    The feat allows to craft masterwork weapons, armors and bows with the "artisan mark" on them.

    With the feat and 9 ranks in craft (armorsmithing) you could be able to craft a mechanus gear 11 AC bonus and +3 max dex bonus. Mithril included.

    If you are a dwarf, from races of stone, you could agument hardness and HP. More, if you have the feat above and you have 14 ranks in armorsmithing.

    Nonmagical, I don't know if can be made more than this.
    Last edited by Kaiyanwang; 2009-03-09 at 11:45 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Gonna throw platinum into the field from the Vassal of Bahamut prc - Though I'm not sure how it stacks up

    25 lbs
    8 AC
    4 max dex
    -1 check penalty
    20% ASF
    No speed reduction

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    As far as I can tell, yes, Mechanus Gear is the best non-magical armor you can buy. But Mithral heavy armor is 9,000 + base masterwork armor costs. For that amount of gp, you can get AC 22+ a number of different ways.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    By description, it's already Mithril; no applying it twice ;)

    EDIT: Lookey, I was totally wrong. No mention of Mithril. Gawd, I have to learn things by heart again - I'm getting sloppy.
    Applying mithral to celestial chain still sounds cheesy to me. Besides, it's a specific armor; you gotta start with celestial chain and if anything you add on upgrades from there. I don't think you can go back and change it.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Applying mithral to celestial chain still sounds cheesy to me. Besides, it's a specific armor; you gotta start with celestial chain and if anything you add on upgrades from there. I don't think you can go back and change it.
    Yeah, but my reasoning was off. I agree that whatever material it is is already so light that you're probably better off not making it of Mithril. Then again, that's not really made explicit in the RAW; that said, as Core lacks any magical properties that increase the Max Dex bonus, I'd put my money on it being the material making it so light.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2009-03-09 at 07:05 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Gold Dragon Plate. Using old Dragonlance rules.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    That brings back memories...

    But it's not really 3.5, though.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    I've found another contender: Nightscale (Underdark, p.66). +2 armor bonus, +10 max DEX. Same potential AC as mithril Mechanus gear (12) - although you need a LOT of DEX.

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    ^Gnome Twistcloth. Infinity max dex bonus.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    ^ Technically so is ordinary clothing. It's just a matter of infinity vs. infinity plus one.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    As far as I can tell, yes, Mechanus Gear is the best non-magical armor you can buy. But Mithral heavy armor is 9,000 + base masterwork armor costs. For that amount of gp, you can get AC 22+ a number of different ways.
    The masterwork component is already included in the price for making it from mithral. So making heavy mithral armor would be 9,000 + the base armor cost, rather than the base masterwork armor cost.

    Not much, but it saves you 150 gp.
    Last edited by Zherog; 2009-03-12 at 12:55 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Zherog View Post
    The masterwork component is already included in the price for making it from mithral. So making heavy mithral armor would be 9,000 + the base armor cost, rather than the base masterwork armor cost.

    Not much, but it saves you 150 gp.
    Good catch Zherog, I forgot about that.

    So Mithril Mechanus Gear costs 9000 for mithral + 1750 base for +10 AC and +2 Max Dex. Not horribly expensive. But you still won't be able to reasonably afford it until ECL 6ish.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Noone likes mithril full plate... it seems...
    Last edited by BlueWizard; 2009-03-12 at 07:17 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWizard View Post
    Noone likes mithril full plate... it seems...
    Mithril full plate = 8 armor + 3 DEX, so not quite as good as Mechanus Gear or Nightscale...

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best Non Magical Armor

    I know, but it looks cool in real life.

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