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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    Hi guys! Sorry I've been gone since forever, college has been rough. ^^;

    For now, I come bearing questions. I'm going to be in a game starting up in the summer, and the DM's encouraged us to start roughing out character ideas. I've got the concept, I just need to pick a class, and I wanted to come here for second opinions and thoughts.

    A few things you should know about the game:
    1) It's in Eberron. I am not entirely familiar with Eberron, but I have the campaign setting to read.
    2) It's gestalt (because apparently Eberron wasn't powerful enough ), but WE ARE NOT ALLOWED to choose our second class ahead of time. We are only supposed to pick our primary class; the secondary will be added through some mystical process that appears to be part DM fiat and part player input. I want help picking out the primary; suggestions for the secondary are appreciated but I don't know if I can use them.
    (I do not fully understand the process, and the DM is not here to defend or explain it, so let's avoid discussing whether this process is a good thing or not. I'm, for the record, totally cool with whatever he wants to do.)

    The character idea I had was essentially an "oracle"-type character; the DM and I have yet to discuss whether or not she actually gets vaguely ominous portents and visions, but that's what I'm shooting for. In personality, I want to drop WIS through the floor and make her totally detached from reality, kind of like the stereotypical spacey new age psychic-- entirely sincere, but really out there.

    Now, it should also be pointed out that, mechanically, I am in love with the psionic system far and above Vancian magic after playing a psion, so I'd really, really like to be psionic (also would work well with the Kalashtar thing). The obvious answer is Psion (seer), but I'm also looking at wilder, largely because the wilder's flavour fits my concept of the wild-minded psychic, partially because I find it hard to imagine such a character having INT as her primary stat, and partially because I'm playing a telepath already and would like some variety.

    My problem : Are wilders... good? They seem kind of like psions with less powers. Should I try wilder, or just stick to psion? Or is there another class that'd be great for this that I'm totally overlooking/don't even know about?

    Thanks in advance for ANY suggestions you guys have.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    I'd propose that you play Psion (seer), grab the Overchannel feat and go to the prestige class Anarchic Initiate from Complete Psionic after 5th level. This will gain you full Psion progression, which is much better than Wilder's, but also give you an improved Overchannel - at 3rd level it also turns into Wild Surge - and several neat abilities, including the ability to bring Limbo traits into the Material Plane.

    Not to mention the fluff, which I think you will find appropriate.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    Psionics is not my strong suit (in that I have no idea how to build any sort of useful psionic), but I have a couple suggestions for other classes.

    In general, I think it might be a little bit more interesting if the character doesn't quite know, or can't quite control, what happens when they get the vision. So if you want to take it that way...

    - Warlock. If you're going for the "haunted by visions" theme, the Warlock fluff (loner, pacts with demons or fey) could serve well.

    - Bard. Very, very nonstandard choice for a D&D oracle character, but I'm thinking something along the lines of Isaac Mendez/Matt Parkman in Heroes. It could work if you play it right. (Strangely enough, Bard can also qualify you for the Divine Oracle PrC from Complete Divine).

    If you're looking for a class that might be more focused on controlling, understanding, or using the crazy visions, Archivist or Hexblade might be thematically good.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    A pity that you specified low Wisdom. Spirit Shaman from Complete Divine would also have fitted the bill: druidic casting and communing with spirits.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adumbration View Post
    A pity that you specified low Wisdom. Spirit Shaman from Complete Divine would also have fitted the bill: druidic casting and communing with spirits.
    Aye, if it weren't for the low Wisdom thing, I'd say Ardent would definitely be the best Psionic class for an Oracle.

    I don't suppose you could have high Wisdom but just pick up Flaws like Inattentive and so forth?

    EDIT: To actually answer the OP's main question ... Yeah, Wilders are pretty lame. Mostly just like Psions with less powers known. Wild Surge is flavorful but hurts you more than it helps you, really, and most of their other class features are too situational to be good.
    Last edited by Draz74; 2009-03-10 at 12:54 PM.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    I know you said you aren't keen on Vancian casting, but check this out:

    Wizard5/DivineOracle2/Loremaster3/Fullcasting10

    Divine Oracle....is an oracle. Lots of forsight flavored stuff, including access to the Oracle domain which gives you the ability to talk to gods (Commune...pick up that big golden phone, you know you want to!). Loremaster is a perfect transition from DO, since they both require a Skill Focus: Knowledge (DO is Religion, LM is Any) and LM even recovers that feat for you so its really not much of a loss over anything else. LM also gives you Bardic Lore so you can regale your party with all kinds of useless facts from yesteryears.

    As far as progression goes, you can finish out either LM or DO, or head into something like Fatespinner or whatever. I'd highly recommend at least 2, if not 3 levels of Archmage in there at some point. Specialize or focused specialize to taste.

    You can find Divine Oracle in Complete Divine and Loremaster in the DMG.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    Pity you don't like Vancian Casting, since I homebrewed up a Savant class that basically is an oracle on speed. It's Int-based, not Wis-based, so you can be an oracle-style character who's not completely there. It IS homebrew, but I've tested it out in some games, and it plays pretty well (little underpowered, actually), so most folks would probably be ok with it.

    Here's a link to it, if you are interested. PM me with questions if you have any: The Savant. Hope you like it.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    just a minor suggestion: can't you talk with your DM and take a psion with CHA replacing the role of INT? i think that's the simplest way to go, and would fit your desires more than anything...

    also, a friend of mine who DMed also had a player who wanted to play an oracle, and the players did have visions, but it worked like this:
    the player had a certain amount of "forsight points" (forgot how they calculated it). he used these to clarify visions more (will be detailed soon), but in order to recharge these he would have to meditate and ivest his power into it (thus taking from the daily/ weekly allotment of spells/ powers). i don't remember the exact process...

    the DM would survey the adventure before hand, and prepare certain "omens/portens/ visions" that the character might recieve. each of these had several levels, each level with a greater clarity.

    now lets sya the player hears the name of a major PC. the DM nods at the player and holds a slip. the player can then "buy" a vision woth 1, 2, or whatever points, the more points, the clearer the vision.

    the system worked out great, (the player had to choose wisely which visions to take since there were far more "vision opportunities" than vision points, it realy added to the suspense. many of the lower level visions wer ambivalent enough to keep everyone on their toes) the downside of this is that the DM has quite a bit of extra work to do...

    hope this helps.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    For race, the Kalashtar, or "spirit touched" is a great psionic race (they originate from a race of possesing psionic alien creatures). They start off with nifty psionic bonuses like the ability mindlink and extra power points. (if this helps, they look like humans/elves).

    Another Race you can check out would be the psiforged, which is a warforged that has taken the psiforged body feat at first level from the Magic of Eberron splatbook. This gives you 1 extra power point at first level and allows you to treat your body as a cognizance crystal which lets you store power points from the day before. To top it off, you are a warforged with crystals embedded into you. Now imagine someone like that predicting the future and try to not go into a coma from sheer awesome.

    Honestly, psion is probably best unless your character had attained his/her powers suddenly.

    EDIT: I see now that you just wanted class suggestions... No matter, hopefully I'm helping anyway.
    Last edited by Graymayre; 2009-03-10 at 07:06 PM.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    Thanks for all the suggestions so far, guys!

    Adumbration: Oh, my, Anarchic Initiate's flavour is delicious and perfect. I'll have to ask the DM how he feels about planned prestige classing (and how that's going to work with this gestalt thing).
    Anyone else have thoughts on the Anarchs? Seems like going that route from psion is like being a psion and a wilder at the same time only cooler, which certainly sounds viable...

    Telonius: the problem with Warlock is that they are, as I understand, a very... "meh" class, which is something I'm trying to avoid. I have a habit of severely underpowering my characters and am trying to stay a little more playable this time.

    Keld Denar: Again, I'm not sure how the DM feels about having an extremely planned progression like that, since we're not even supposed to pick our second gestalt class ahead of time. I'll have to give Divine Oracle a look next time I have the book, though... heck, it's right there in the name. ^^

    Arguskos: Wow, that is really nice flavour, but I'd prefer to avoid homebrew. Thanks though!

    Kol Korran: I may ask him about that. When I first mentioned being a psion, he seemed to recall different disciplines tying into different stats at first, so he may be receptive to the idea. I'll see.

    Graymayre: You read my mind; I was already planning to be Kalashtar.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzbaa View Post
    Keld Denar: Again, I'm not sure how the DM feels about having an extremely planned progression like that, since we're not even supposed to pick our second gestalt class ahead of time. I'll have to give Divine Oracle a look next time I have the book, though... heck, it's right there in the name. ^^
    I second his advice.
    I also don't understand what your talking about when you say planned progression, but that might just be me.

    Going Specialist Diviner would be near perfect, but since you said you wanted to stay away from Int, sorcerer would work just as well if you focus on Divinations, saying that it's a "very" devoted Diviner.

    Psions are good, but since they don't nearly have enough books to back them up, they fall flat compared to everything else, and are motly only good for blowing stuff up a few times a day.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    One more idea, if you can take the sorcerer's angle on Vancian casting. There's a PrC in Magic of Eberron named Dragon Prophet; it advances arcane casting or the artificers' infusions but not manifesting. The Dragon Prophesier feat (prererquisite for the class) and the Prophecy's ... feats which depend on that feat I think match your concept, but again are mostly aimed at spellcasters. The PrC itself I think you'd find useful also.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzbaa View Post
    Arguskos: Wow, that is really nice flavour, but I'd prefer to avoid homebrew. Thanks though!
    ...sad panda is sad. Oh well. If you decide to change your mind, feel free to give it a shot. Oracle characters are fascinating and great fun, which is why I made up that class there. If you do try it out, let me know how it goes.

    Good luck with whatever you run with.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Eberron - Class suggestion for an oracle character?

    For your gestalt side: I know you mentioned that you'd take suggestions for it, just in case, so: Warblade. Specifically, diamond mind focused warblade. Mechanically, it should be great (I don't know about Anarchic initiate) : it will give you better hit dice, BAB, and so on, while diamond mind focuses on Concentration - something that you might have a rank or two in. Not to mention INT synergy (though if you get a custom stat change deal, not so much).

    Flavorwise, Diamond mind synergizes very well - you can tell the future, and you use this to get the edge over your enemies in combat.

    Another interesting idea might be factotum. INT synergy, gives you loads of skills, and the inspiration points class feature could work very well as visions of the future.

    "How do I pick this lock?"
    *looks into future*
    "Oh, that's how I'm about to do it!"

    Anyway, just some thoughts.
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