nWoD Questions

[Xenogears]

My Fiance recently bought a copy of the nWoD along with Vampire:Requiem? I think its called and as I was looking through it I wound up getting confused about a couple parts and after not managing to find any answers in the book I figured that I could ask here.

So anyways the main question is about the Resource Merit. Now by the description of the merit it seems to me that per I think it said about a month you could buy maybe one or two things that are about the same cost as you have points in that merit. So does this mean that short of theft a character with no dots in Resources can't buy anything more expensive than a can of mace?

[ZeroNumerous]

Yup. The Resources merit represents your day--or in the case of vampires, their night--job or other sources of income. If you lack any form of income, then you can expect to subsequently lack any way to legitimately purchase anything.

[hiryuu]

Well, specifically, Resources refers to your disposable income. You may live in a middle class home, have a spouse who works a job, too, but your kids, your car, your insurance gobbles up all your extra income. Without Resources, buying that can of mace would cause your entire personal economy to collapse in on your head. Purchasing up new dots in the Resources merit could represent learning to manage your current cash flow better or just an increase in your current wealth.

You should almost always put a dot or two in it.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

This isn't all to strange if you think about it, while humans need to do things like eating, all a vampire needs is blood and somewhere to hide from the sun. Since you usually don't buy blood, money is just a luxury.

[Krrth]

This isn't all to strange if you think about it, while humans need to do things like eating, all a vampire needs is blood and somewhere to hide from the sun. Since you usually don't buy blood, money is just a luxury.

Not quite true. While Vampires don't need to buy food anymore, they do still have costs. Housing, transportation, clothing...possibly even taxes.



Edit: Also, Cash on hand and resources don't have to be the same thing. Taking cash ofter feeding might not do anything to your resources rating, but it's still cash that can be spent.

[Egiam]

My group severly dislikes that system; my ST is currently homebrewing another one.

[Comet]

Our Vampire group pretty much gave up on resource dots.
It's just so much easier to use your mystical powers of mind control to initiate a complex financial scam whenever you need extra cash. None of the characters had any ties to their past lives, so they were free to run around town ripping off stupid and rich corporate men. Easy money had never been so easy. In theory.

For everyone else, resource dots are pretty damn important.

[Krrth]

Our Vampire group pretty much gave up on resource dots.
It's just so much easier to use your mystical powers of mind control to initiate a complex financial scam whenever you need extra cash. None of the characters had any ties to their past lives, so they were free to run around town ripping off stupid and rich corporate men. Easy money had never been so easy. In theory.

For everyone else, resource dots are pretty damn important.

Out of curiosity, how did you manage that? Most major financial transactions have to be carried out either between the hours of 9 and 4, mon-fri, or by paperwork that takes a minimum of 10 business days to complete.

[Comet]

By proxy, mostly. The liberal use of ghouls, contacts and mind controlled persons on a time trigger can get you far (there are some devotions out there that allow you to use the Dominate discipline with a specific trigger, for example "at 3 p.m tomorrow, go to Bob's bar and seek out the gentleman sitting at the back. Then proceed to --". You can be pretty specific with the instructions).

Failing that, or if you are on a time leash, there's always some rich idiot wandering around the city at night. "Give me your credit card and all the information I need to acces your account" is a viable command, if you have enough mind-controlling power. Can't remember the specific devotions used, it has been a while since we played.

Can't say that it was always easy, but there was always some illegal way to get quick cash if you looked hard enough.

[Krrth]

By proxy, mostly. The liberal use of ghouls, contacts and mind controlled persons on a time trigger can get you far (there are some devotions out there that allow you to use the Dominate discipline with a specific trigger, for example "at 3 p.m tomorrow, go to Bob's bar and seek out the gentleman sitting at the back. Then proceed to --". You can be pretty specific with the instructions).

Failing that, or if you are on a time leash, there's always some rich idiot wandering around the city at night. "Give me your credit card and all the information I need to acces your account" is a viable command, if you have enough mind-controlling power. Can't remember the specific devotions used, it has been a while since we played.

Can't say that it was always easy, but there was always some illegal way to get quick cash if you looked hard enough.

Hrm...the reason I ask is I work in the financial business, and something about that doesn't seem right.

*shrug* Probably just me though.

[Comet]

It's probably not just you, since none of us work in the financial business. But we figured it's not too out there to be viable. So in a way I quess the story takes front in cases like this.

If you're playing Mages, however, you don't even need to try to be realistic about your finances. Some of the magic they get makes getting rich in a single night almost too easy.

[Krrth]

It's probably not just you, since none of us work in the financial business. But we figured it's not too out there to be viable. So in a way I quess the story takes front in cases like this.

If you're playing Mages, however, you don't even need to try to be realistic about your finances. Some of the magic they get makes getting rich in a single night almost too easy.

Actually, the easiestway to get finances is Changeling. Make a pact, get rich. Or beautiful. Whatever.


As long as it's semi-plausible, fun usually trumps reality.

[ZeroNumerous]

Actually, the easiest way to get finances is Changeling. Make a pact, get rich. Or beautiful. Whatever.

The easiest way to get finances is being a Mage. Some Matter dots and some imagination to make gold, diamonds, silver, steel, whatever you want. Resources dots are basically only useful for ghouls, Werewolves and Protheans(as if anyone plays those).

[Juhn]

Making money via Matter magic is probably a Wisdom sin. You're using magic to counterfeit - I'd say that's hubris.

But yeah, you could probably do it. Is Matter creation permanent? I know constructed minds/bodies/body parts aren't.

[Krrth]

Making money via Matter magic is probably a Wisdom sin. You're using magic to counterfeit - I'd say that's hubris.

But yeah, you could probably do it. Is Matter creation permanent? I know constructed minds/bodies/body parts aren't.

making valuable items using matter doesn't last, until maybe 5 dots.


Changelings just make a pact and creation itself takes care of the rest...

[Juhn]

I didn't think it was permament - permanent magic tends to be Archmastery only.

So not only is it counterfeiting, but the money will eventually dissolve. I pity the poor sucker who has it at that point.

I haven't read through Changeling yet, don't know much about it.

I'm running a game of Werewolf soon, and so far nobody's taken Resources. This is gonna be interesting...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Making money via Matter magic is probably a Wisdom sin. You're using magic to counterfeit - I'd say that's hubris.

But yeah, you could probably do it. Is Matter creation permanent? I know constructed minds/bodies/body parts aren't.

You aren't creating, you are transmuting.

In it's simplest form, I have a stone-quality ruby. It's not worth much, because it isn't a gem. So I buy the cheap red stone, and transmute it into a flawless perfectly cut ruby of the same mass, which is extraordinarily expensive.

With more dots in Matter, you can transmute lead to gold. Transmutations are generally permanent unless something specifically acts to counter it.

I remember in the oWoD, Mage: The Ascension was pretty much full of Win buttons, because there is so much you can do with Coincidental and even more you can do with Vulgar Without Witnesses that can break the game with minimal cost which can be offset by spending Quintessence. Hell, a fairly straightforward Matter3, Prime2 rote can turn a Vampire (which is not alive, thus not needing any Life) into a toaster.

[Krrth]

You aren't creating, you are transmuting.

In it's simplest form, I have a stone-quality ruby. It's not worth much, because it isn't a gem. So I buy the cheap red stone, and transmute it into a flawless perfectly cut ruby of the same mass, which is extraordinarily expensive.

With more dots in Matter, you can transmute lead to gold. Transmutations are generally permanent unless something specifically acts to counter it.

I remember in the oWoD, Mage: The Ascension was pretty much full of Win buttons, because there is so much you can do with Coincidental and even more you can do with Vulgar Without Witnesses that can break the game with minimal cost which can be offset by spending Quintessence. Hell, a fairly straightforward Matter3, Prime2 rote can turn a Vampire (which is not alive, thus not needing any Life) into a toaster.

The toaster thing depends on which books you use. At least one of them straight up says removing the vampiric condition using magic requires a contested roll against God. I think turning a vampire into a toaster counts as removing the condition.

Check the individual spells. Anything that deals with "precious" or "rare" require a matter 4 effect, and only last for 1 scene. (pg 200, main mage book)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The toaster thing depends on which books you use. At least one of them straight up says removing the vampiric condition using magic requires a contested roll against God. I think turning a vampire into a toaster counts as removing the condition.

Check the individual spells. Anything that deals with "precious" or "rare" require a matter 4 effect, and only last for 1 scene. (pg 200, main mage book)

So you turn them into a vampyric toaster... same concept. Or simply turn their skin into cement and make them a vampyric statue who still needs blood but is unable to move to receive it.

I'm glad they closed that loophole. In oWoD, anyone with Matter2 could break the global economy in any precious metal they chose.

[Krrth]

So you turn them into a vampyric toaster... same concept. Or simply turn their skin into cement and make them a vampyric statue who still needs blood but is unable to move to receive it.

I'm glad they closed that loophole. In oWoD, anyone with Matter2 could break the global economy in any precious metal they chose.

You might be able to turn them into a statue....but then anything you did to alter them wears off at the end of 24 hours.

Since it was in one of the later books (Blood War, I think? It was the one that dealt with the Hermetics vs/ Tremere), my guess is it was intended to close off those types of abuses.


As for the money loophole, NWoD tries hard to close things like that off.

The only ways to get "free" money off the bat are luck magic (but you can't keep it, or benefit in any significant way-cab fare is fine, but that's about it), Plasticity to create a work of art, but you have to actually make the work of art physically, Changelings contracting for it, or Promethians that become Human using a Dragon crucible.

[NeoVid]

Check the individual spells. Anything that deals with "precious" or "rare" require a matter 4 effect, and only last for 1 scene. (pg 200, main mage book)

Cash isn't rare or precious, it's worthless paper. Easily transformed at Matter 3.

And you can always use the modifiers for extending spell duration if you're willing to take the penalty. Heck, at Matter 4, you can make paper money that lasts for weeks with just a couple of dice knocked off your casting roll.

Just remember to change the serial numbers.

I played a Matter expert, and it's the best magic for making a living there is. All the cash and drugs you want!

The safest for making a living is Fate. "I want to find a winning scratch-off ticket right now."

[Krrth]

Cash isn't rare or precious, it's worthless paper. Easily transformed at Matter 3.

And you can always use the modifiers for extending spell duration if you're willing to take the penalty. Heck, at Matter 4, you can make paper money that lasts for weeks with just a couple of dice knocked off your casting roll.

Just remember to change the serial numbers.

I played a Matter expert, and it's the best magic for making a living there is. All the cash and drugs you want!

The safest for making a living is Fate. "I want to find a winning scratch-off ticket right now."

Sorry, but "rare" and "precious" are defined by "common sleeper estimation". that means no cash, no drugs. You can certainly increase the time it sticks around with penalties, but you still have to have 4 dots.

As for fate, you can instantly wish up a fortune, but be prepared for the Karmic backlash for doing so.

[Juhn]

If I'm not mistaken, counterfeit money is worthless as it isn't legal money. You can try to convince people it is, though, but that's a Subterfuge roll and not a spell. Or possibly a Larceny roll, depending on how you go about it.

[NeoVid]

They fixed the bit with Sleeper perceptions determining value in Tome of the Mysteries, since it doesn't fit the way the setting works at all. I can't remember how it works now off the top of my head.

...Hmm, even if it still does apply, you could make something extremely valuable that isn't considered rare or precious... let's see...

HA! Printer ink! It's worth over $300 a gallon, and you could make all you want with Matter 2! Harder to immediately profit from, but mages have to be inventive.

That made me realize, if you've got Matter 3 and some Crafts skills, you could your magic to put together one of the machines that makes artificial gems, which are indistinguishable from real gems.

...I'm glad the OP's question got answered before we threadjacked like this.

[Juhn]

Heh, sorry about that. I just saw a nWoD thread in GitP and felt the need to capitalize on it.

[Krrth]

I'll have to check that out next time we play Mage. Depending on what they changed it to, my Moros has been doing it wrong the whole time.....that is to say, charging obscene amounts of money to "upgrade" vehicles.

[Totally Guy]

Our group is going to play Vampire the Requiem and it'll be completely new to me. I tried writing a back story but I'm not entirely sure it fits with the precedents set by the system. I had to think about whether garlic, crosses or crossing water were bad for vampires in this game or not. And although I think I found out these things I might need a proofreader to see if my image is compatible with the game.

[charl]

Concerning garlic, holy symbols and running water: no, it doesn't work. Sunlight and fire are vamp-killers, though.

[Juhn]

IIRC, there's a section near the beginning of the book which describes which bits of lore are true and false for vampires in V:tR. It also says that even though a certain weakness isn't true for your average vampire, there might be a bloodline with that weakness that started that particular "legend".

I'm not sure what you mean by "fitting precedents". If you mean you don't want to disrupt any canon backstory, you've got no worries there: there isn't any canon backstory. Elders fall into torpor after a while and that messes with their memories. Nobody knows the true history of vampires. The various covenants may have their theories, but it's entirely up to the ST to decide whether any of them are right.

As far as I know ST fiat the case with oWoD as well, it just took a whole lot more work to work what you wanted if it didn't fit within the canon metaplot.

Make the story you want to make. If it disrupts game mechanics, that might be an issue, but there's more than enough freedom to change things before that becomes an issue.

Heck, if you want to change it so drastically that it alters game mechanics then that's also up to you - just be sure to let your players know which parts of your game don't match up with the mechanics presented in the book, so they don't work out something that's viable by the book but not in your game.

[Totally Guy]

I'm just going to be playing in this one. I've not had a chance to see the books yet but our DM seems quite excited to see what we come up with. But as always I'm not very well read on the subject so I struggle.

If anybody is interested... massive backstory with only very basic rules knowledge...

Spoiler

Show

Greg Carcer was the boy that cried wolf. However it was not his fault. The wolf was very cunning, he didn’t stand a chance.

Greg was headed home one day after his shift at the car factory was done. He had a couple of errands to fulfil. Paint for his ambitious art project. He also had to visit the church.

Greg arrived at Saint Warrington’s and sat in a pew. The church was nearly empty save for a few worshippers. Greg saw what he needed; a suitably gothic candle with wax trickles like a frozen fountain and it was near the door too.

Making sure that he was not seen he lifted the cast iron holder but it was heavier than he’d expected. With nimble reaction he spun it a little negating the sound it would have otherwise made. If he was going to take this candlestick he was going to need to do it with a bit more thought. The cover of darkness would be required but not so late that the vicar would lock the door. It would be dark soon and quieter too so Greg headed back to the pew where he could at lease feign prayer. Upon kneeling down he noticed a discomfort under his knee, under the cushion someone had left a wooden cross with flat metal tips. Maybe it had some value but more importantly it would probably fit in well with the painting he was planning. It would look perfect next to the waxy candle.

Greg looked again and decided that it was dark enough and quiet enough for him to move the candle stick out of the door and place it behind the obscuring stonework of the church’s enclave entrance. With a little effort and twisting he placed the candle outside the entrance and behind the wall. The graveyard was looking misty and unnerving and Greg felt a little bit unsettled. He was stealing from a church, that’s an unsettling thing to do. He had the intention of returning the candlestick once it was part of the masterpiece; this was justification enough for now.

With the candlestick in place he decided to pick up his paint from Angela, his neighbour and return home.

After feeding himself with his poor quality slow cooked beef stew he decided it was getting late enough to head back for the candlestick. He lived alone so he had no reason to stay in.

Over the misty graveyard Greg crept. He stepped lightly as he was starting to feel that nervousness again. Then he heard steps through the unkempt grass. He’d not done anything wrong yet so he thought worst case it was Vicar Julien. But that was far from the worst case. The figure was bald and disfigured, long fingers and ears were visible from the silhouette cast by the individual.

Greg ran and the attacker chased. He had an idea; he’d get to the candlestick and use that as a heavy weapon, if it was still there.

He made it, but not a moment too soon, the beast was nearly upon him. Using the cast iron pole he blocked the direct assault but the monstrosity was too strong. It pulled the pole into its own clutches.

“I shall have your blood!” it hissed through fanged jaws.

Greg pulled out the cross he had found and forced it in the direction of the beast.

It hissed and spat and retreated to behind a grave stone. Greg knocked the candlestick against the church door and beat it open, damaging the doors.

The monster recomposed itself and approached to door with Greg pushing from the other side to keep it closed.

“Do you know what I am?” It snarled, “I am a vampire. You are wasting your efforts. I cannot enter this building. Nor can I enter any home uninvited. But I will have you, you are my quarry.”

Through out this Greg just sobbed as he continued to push the door tight. He was scared but he knew of such beasts and would not allow one to intimidate him in this way.

The next morning the sun rose and Greg was still in the cold shade filled church. He drank some holy water and decided that he’d arm himself with such as soon as he found suitable bottles. He was going to be late for his shift at the production line and he’d not slept.

During the day he spoke of his ordeal with his colleagues. They thought he was crazy but Greg held his cross tight and told them he’d use whatever he could to defend himself.

After his shift Greg went to market to find some Garlic. He also bought some small bottles for holy water. On the way he crossed the river. He’d been informed by his work colleague that crossing a bridge over a river would end any vampire related pursuit. On returning home Greg took inside his welcome mat, he didn’t want to take any chances. He put away his paints and canvas and planned to make this room his sanctuary, it would have crosses and garlic, whatever mystic circles he could find to inscribe.

A couple of months later Greg had relaxed his routine a little, his sanctuary room was complete and he was starting to doubt what he’d seen all those nights ago. But then the Vampire sighting started again and he carried all his Vampire harming items at all times. The dark empty streets contained the silhouette of the Vampire and occasionally Greg was chased but Greg was smart and always chased him off with one of the many items in his arsenal. His friends may have stopped hanging out with him but at least they knew what to do in a Vampire emergency. His task fulfilled and conscience clear. Greg had even managed to get a considerable amount of time off work for his behaviour, he was waiting for a consultation to be arranged with the factory councillor, that’s sometimes needed on a hopeless production line.

After many months of this he yelled at the monster that he was no longer scared and although they thought he was a bit crazy his entire social circle all knew every weakness a Vampire had.

Hearing this taunt the Vampire stood still and smiled.

“Thank you for informing me of this,” he slyly whispered. “Now it is time to end this.” The Vampire surged onwards towards Greg.

Greg produced his faithful cross.

The Vampire continued, unfazed.

Greg threw his garlic hitting the Vampire in the chest to no effect. Then he sprayed the holy water. Then it was time to run.

He crossed the bridge and entered his home the Vampire crossing the bridge slowly in the distance. Greg sat inside fearing again, how was this possible? Is his home still a sanctuary? Is his sanctuary room still valid?

Greg closed himself in that room hoping that there was still some means of safety. He looked up at the ceiling and he saw a large painting of himself, dead, drained of blood lying in that very room. This petrified him beyond anything he’d ever seen. The painting was his own, his own style, his own work.

“You don’t get it do you?” sneered the evil presence at the door.
“What’s going on?” asked Greg.
“I drained you of your blood and made you into a vampire yourself weeks ago. You’ve just been obsessing about me. Did you not notice how you’d only been going out at night? Your friends thinking you were crazy, work never contacting you. None of those Vampire killing tools were at all real, you fulfilled your task by spreading the word that they were, for the good of all of us. The real sweetener of all this is the fear you now feel now that your memory has broken through the barrier. Your painting was the key. It astounds me that a true masterpiece is only born through subconscious efforts. Overall you have done well.”

Greg looked at his house. His slow cooker was on the floor. It contained a large bloodied cooked rat.

He remembered everything and saw himself for what he had become and his blood ran cold.

“You feel that chill? It runs down your spine? That is when the blood is at its sweetest.” The vampire launched toward Greg and it did feast well.