[3.5] My house rules, let me show you them

[Swooper]

I've recently started DMing a fresh game, we've done one session so far. I'm using the house rules below and thought I'd get the Playground's opinion and criticism (and also so I can just link to this thread when I need to show someone my house rules). The game is Gestalt, starting at 5th level.

House Rules

• Allowed Books: Content from any 3.5 book that isn't Forgotten Realms or Eberron is available, though I reserve the right to disallow certain things from some of them. You may potentially use things from Forgotten Realms or Eberron (or even 3.0, if it doesn't take much conversion and hasn't been updated already) books, but you'll have to ask permission for each specific thing as I'm not very familiar with most of them. Setting specific things like dragonmarks and the Harper prestige classes are not allowed. Web resources are allowed case-by-case, as is homebrew.
• The following defined variant rules will be used:
  -Massive Damage Based on Size (DMG 27)
  -Weapon Equivalencies (DMG 27)
  -Critical Success or Failure (DMG 34) (These rules have always been used in my group so the players are used to them and like them, even if they are skewed slightly against the PCs.)
  -Nonmagical Psionics (DMG 297)
  -All the class- and class feature variants are available (including Gestalt, obviously).
  -Fractional Base Bonuses (UA 73)
  -Complex Skill Checks
  -Character Traits & Flaws
  -Alternative Save Failure Results (Dying)
  -Action Points with the change that action points are awarded by the DM instead of automatically gained at level-ups.
• Death and dying: Creatures are disabled from 0 to negative Con modifier inclusive, and dying down to negative Con score. So for example, a dwarf with Constitution 18 is disabled from 0 to -4, dying down to -18 and dies when he hits -19. A creature with a negative Con modifier is disabled only at 0.
• Background Feats: At levels 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20 all characters gain a free bonus 'background feat', which can be any feat generally regarded as underpowered (e.g. Endurance, Skill Focus, Alertness...) and which has a strong connection to your character's background. These feats must be approved by the DM. Background feats can never be used for prerequisites, except for other background feats (e.g. Skill Focus -> Greater Skill Focus).
• Concentration: The DC to Cast Defensively is not 15+Spell level, but rather: 10 + BAB of threatening foe + Spell Level of the spell you are trying to cast.
• Profession: Is removed from the skill list. It's pointless. If you want your character to be a professional miner or something, feel free to include it in his/her background. In the rare cases where Profession is a prerequisite for a prestige class or a feat (I can only think of Fatespinner and Sublime Chord), that requirement will be changed on a case-by case basis (in the Fatespinner's case, I think any one [Luck] feat instead of the Profession: Gambling ranks is appropriate; for the Sublime Chord I'll change the Profession: Astrologer to Knowledge: The Planes).
• The following equipment does not exist: Double weapons other than quarterstaves (because they're just silly). Spiked chain (for the same reason). Animated Shield. Candle of Invocation.
• Nightsticks: They don't stack, and you can't use them for anything but actually turning undead (so no using them for DMM-madness).
• Multiclassing: No multiclassing XP penalty, and so, no favoured classes. It's a silly and annoying rule in my opinion.
• Prestige classes: Most are fine, but because there's an awful lot of them, and there are some broken ones out there. All prestige classes require approval by the DM, better check before heading to a specific one.
• Hit Dice: All HD are maxed. This applies to both PCs, NPC and monsters.
• The following spells are banned: Celerity, Greater Celerity, Shivering Touch.
• Polymorph-type spells are restricted by the caster's experience.
• Not that I expect it to come up, but Called outsiders (ones summoned by a Conjuration [Calling] spell) cannot use any summoning abilities they may or may not have.
• A high casting stat gives bonus spells at level 0, as many as the bonus 1st level spells granted (so a wizard with Int 12 has 1 extra cantrip, one with Int 20 has 2 extra etc.). Specialist wizards also gain a 0-level bonus spell of their chosen school.

Class changes:

• In general: Any class with 2 skill points per level is changed to 4. Any class with 4 skill points per level is changed to 5. This is not repeated for each relevant class below.
• Dragon Shaman: Gain Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill (as per the PHB2 errata); Draconic Aura is +1 at 1st level and increases by 1 at levels 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18. At 20th level, they can have an additional aura active, changing one or both with a single swift action. This stacks with the Double Draconic Aura feat, bringing the total up to three auras in such cases.
• Cleric: Gain Sense Motive as a class skill. Change Fortitude Save progression to poor.
• Druid: Use the Shapeshift variant from PHB2.
• Fighter: Replaces the Warrior class for NPCs. Gain Heal, Listen and Spot as class skills. If you want to use it for a PC, use BWL's Fighter Fix instead, or just the Warblade.
• Hexblade: Use the Unofficial Hexblade Fix.
• Monk: Is simply not allowed. Play an Unarmed Swordsage instead.
• Paladin: Use either Fax_Celestis's fix (without the Prowess/skill changes – use as original Paladin) or OneWinged4ngel's fix or just the Crusader. If you like the OW4 version but want to be non-LG, we can work out some mesh between that and Paladin of Freedom/Tyranny/Slaughter.
• Psychic Warrior: Change Base Attack Bonus progression to full.
• Ranger: Uses the Druid's Animal Companion progression.
• Sorcerer: Diplomacy and Intimidate as class skills; Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level; Familiar progresses by character level instead of sorcerer level.
• Wizard: Familiar progresses by character level instead of wizard level; the Abrupt Jaunt alternate class feature for conjurer specialist wizards (from the PHB2) takes a swift action to use instead of an immediate action.

Race changes:

• Dwarves: Choose -2 Cha or -2 Dex.
• Gnomes: +2 to Int instead of +2 Con. This extends to all gnomish subraces with a Con bonus, including Whisper Gnomes.
• Half-Elves: Gain the human skill point bonus.
• Half-Orcs: No charisma penalty. Instead, they take a racial -1 to all charisma checks and charisma-based skill checks vs. other races. Also gain the human skill point bonus.
• Hobgoblins: +2 Constitution and Dexterity, -2 Charisma. Medium, Darkvision, +2 racial Move Silently bonus, LA+0.
• Kobolds: Use the Web Enhancement version.

Any comments/criticisms?

[arguskos]

Only things I dislike (though I disagree with many others, but that's just my preference, there's nothing wrong with them) are that you completely banned the Fighter and the Monk. Yes, they are weak. However, I personally dislike banning classes. If someone REALLY wants to play a monk, it's easy to add a few fixes to make it somewhat playable, and since it's gestalt, it won't hurt them much. Just a thought. Beyond that, looks fine.

[Swooper]

Only things I dislike (though I disagree with many others, but that's just my preference, there's nothing wrong with them) are that you completely banned the Fighter and the Monk. Yes, they are weak. However, I personally dislike banning classes. If someone REALLY wants to play a monk, it's easy to add a few fixes to make it somewhat playable, and since it's gestalt, it won't hurt them much. Just a thought. Beyond that, looks fine.

I didn't completely ban the fighter - BWL's fix is available for those who want to use it. The monk though... making it work is too much of a hassle, I haven't seen a monk fix I like yet. There's nothing it can do that the Swordsage can't do better straight out of the box. None of my players are monk-fans anyway so it's not going to be a problem.

[arguskos]

True, but what if one of them wants to play a monk, but doesn't like ToB? It's just a thought to keep in mind. Like I said, with gestalt, the weaknesses of the monk class are mostly overwhelmed. It's your call, but it steams my biscuts when someone bans a class, rather than fixing it up and letting players play what they want. Just a pet peeve.

Anyways, pretty good list you have there.

[Magnvo]

Why have the FR and Eberron books been banned? They're highly useful for the purposes of feat-pilfering.

[Swooper]

Why have the FR and Eberron books been banned? They're highly useful for the purposes of feat-pilfering.

Simply because I don't own any of them physically and am less familiar with them than non-setting books (have never played in FR nor Eberron, and doubt I will). You'll notice I still allow some stuff from them on a case by case basis, so the feat pilfering still works as long as the feats are not specific to the setting it's from (like the Dragonmarks).

[KillianHawkeye]

Question regarding:

[*]Death and dying: Creatures are disabled from 0 to negative Con modifier inclusive, and dying down to negative Con score. So for example, a dwarf with Constitution 18 is disabled from 0 to -4, dying down to -18 and dies when he hits -19.

Let's say I have a 7 Con (-2 modifier). Do I become disabled at 2 hp down to 0 and die at -8? Or would I just be disabled at exactly 0 hp (and still die at -8)?

I'm just curious how it would work.

[dariathalon]

I'm curious about how you handle that as well. I use a similar house rule in my own game. If you do it as KillianHawkeye suggests it creates in interesting situation in that a 1st level wizard (or any other d4 hit die class) with a 7 con is forever disabled.

4 hp from max roll - 2 con mod = 2 hp at 1st level.

Disabled at 0 - con mod means: 0 - -2 = disabled at 2 hp.

[Fizban]

Everything looks good to me, though I'll have to be that guy and object to the spiked chain, depending on why you've banned it. As a weapon, if you ignore the stupid picture and make it a chain with a spiked weight, it's very feasible and dangerous, not much worse than a flail (hence the exotic). If you've banned it for the stats, I agree that they're rather ridiculous. I'd suggest just making it a normal reach weapon, and allowing any reach weapon to "choke up on the haft" and lose reach, say pick on your first attack of the round and it stays that way until your next turn.

Now the specifics:

-Books: definitely lots of good stuff to steal, though realmshelps can help with feats for quick checks, restricting the default to what you know is always best.
-Massive damage based on size: that'll mess with some stuff, but not enough to bother anything, so it's up to taste.
-Nonmagical Psionics: it gives you the warning on the can, so I assume you're ready for it.
-All the class- and class feature variants are available (including Gestalt, obviously): so, how does this work? Is this a gestalt game, or are you allowing gestalt in exchange for +2 LA or something?
-Fractional Base Bonuses: fractional is good, though if it doen't mention it, you shouldn't allow the +2 at start of class more than once.
-Complex Skill Checks: I always thought this kind of happened naturally if the DM required checks for everything, but stating it up front is good.
-Character Traits & Flaws: flaws=high power, but you know that.
Alternative Save Failure Results (Dying): I'd forgot how simple this one was, good choice.
-Action Points: you and your group know each other best, but after playing mutants and masterminds, I'd suggest a few similar rules to make sure everyone gets some action points. Let them each choose a personal complication, subject to approval (such as do not kill), that gives them an action point when it makes things difficult, and give them an action point whenever they roll a natural 1 that really hurts.
-Death and dying: Nice, I like this one.
-Background Feats: Aside from them being "underpowered", I'd suggest saying they don't count for prerequisites, otherwise you just gave all arcanists Skill Focus: spellcraft for free, making Archmage entry that much easier.
-Concentration: keep in mind that because monster HD grow much faster than PC level, enemy BAB will inflate faster, making this DC more than just 10+level*1.5
-Profession: a fair choice, though I don't think it's any more useless than craft, just less explicitly stated. I assume you'll be using a Piloting skill for sailors and making appropriate substitutions for races that have profession bonuses.
-The following equipment does not exist: ditto on the double weapons, see above for spiked chain, ditto on the candle.
-Nightsticks: If it's just a turning battery stacking shouldn't be too bad, but you've got it right.
-Multiclassing: Seems to be a common idea, and since most multiclassing is PrCs, it hardly matters anyway.
-Prestige classes: Technically already there in the DMG, so super golden.
-Hit Dice: Didn't notice this one before. You do realize that you just sent direct damage from "unoptimized" to "the crapper"? Healing will be weaker as well. Basically anything to do with hp is now weaker than before, since everything has more hp, and moving outside the hp system will be more profitable than ever. As long as you know that, go on ahead.
-The following spells are banned: I won't argue with these. In a high powered game and some rewording so you can't avoid the turn loss, Celerity is just fine, but it's enough of a headache to deal with that banning them is still a fine move.
-Polymorph: as always, you're really going to have to define "experience", especially since knowledge checks can provide substantial info RAW. If you want to crack down and get gruesome, you could require a personally harvested piece of a creature to limit it.
-Called outsiders: good for bookkeeping, though fluff-wise it doesn' make sense. Do note that such abilities are part of the creature's CR, and without them the caster might be getting shortchanged.
-Bonus 0th slots: heck, I'd go one further and just extrapolate the table backwards so you get bonus 0 slots sooner.

[Tempest Fennac]

I like those rules. I agree with Fizban about allowing Relmshelp for feats being a good idea, though.

[Gamiress]

Okay, as a martial artist and exotic dancer I have to object on professional grounds to the assertion that all double weapons are silly. Especially since the Dwarven Urgosh is just a reflavoured poleaxe.

[Curmudgeon]

Why ban the Monk class? That means you're forcing people in your game to choose what you, as a player, would choose instead. Going with a weak class, or using any class ineffectively, should be available player choices. People will learn more by making their own decisions and seeing what problems ensue. Let them.

Your boosting of skill points at the low end really diminishes the relative effectiveness of skill-intensive classes like Rogue and Scout. I don't like that at all.

[Swooper]

Question regarding:


Let's say I have a 7 Con (-2 modifier). Do I become disabled at 2 hp down to 0 and die at -8? Or would I just be disabled at exactly 0 hp (and still die at -8)?

I'm just curious how it would work.

Uh, good point. I'd say that with a negative Con modifier, you're just disabled at 0 as per normal rules. I'll go add that to the topic post.

Everything looks good to me, though I'll have to be that guy and object to the spiked chain, depending on why you've banned it. As a weapon, if you ignore the stupid picture and make it a chain with a spiked weight, it's very feasible and dangerous, not much worse than a flail (hence the exotic). If you've banned it for the stats, I agree that they're rather ridiculous. I'd suggest just making it a normal reach weapon, and allowing any reach weapon to "choke up on the haft" and lose reach, say pick on your first attack of the round and it stays that way until your next turn.

A bit of both. Part personal dislike of spiked chains, part the fact that they obsolete every other reach weapon. If I'd allow them, I'd probably nerf them to work like whips: They don't threaten.

-Books: definitely lots of good stuff to steal, though realmshelps can help with feats for quick checks, restricting the default to what you know is always best.

Realmshelp is allowed on a case-by-case basis as other web sources. There's so much stuff in there (the feat database takes literally minutes to load) that I'd rather not open up the whole thing.

-All the class- and class feature variants are available (including Gestalt, obviously): so, how does this work? Is this a gestalt game, or are you allowing gestalt in exchange for +2 LA or something?

As mentioned at the top, it's a gestalt game

-Fractional Base Bonuses: fractional is good, though if it doen't mention it, you shouldn't allow the +2 at start of class more than once.

Hmm, not too sure on this one. The fractional bonuses rule explicitly states that you get the +2.

Alternative Save Failure Results (Dying): I'd forgot how simple this one was, good choice.

It solves a lot of the problems with Massive Damage, I think. I'll see how this turns out when we hit the levels where it starts coming up.

-Action Points: you and your group know each other best, but after playing mutants and masterminds, I'd suggest a few similar rules to make sure everyone gets some action points. Let them each choose a personal complication, subject to approval (such as do not kill), that gives them an action point when it makes things difficult, and give them an action point whenever they roll a natural 1 that really hurts.

Good suggestions, I'll consider them. I don't know M&M, but I know it's pretty similar to the willpower system of WoD systems (where players basically gain willpower for acting in character).

I plan to use Action Points as a reward system independent of XP. Whenever a player roleplays particularly well or does something inherently cool, he gets an AP.

-Background Feats: Aside from them being "underpowered", I'd suggest saying they don't count for prerequisites, otherwise you just gave all arcanists Skill Focus: spellcraft for free, making Archmage entry that much easier.

Good point, I'll add that clause.

-Concentration: keep in mind that because monster HD grow much faster than PC level, enemy BAB will inflate faster, making this DC more than just 10+level*1.5

Skills are easy enough to boost, it just means that concentration doesn't "max out" at +13 I think. At least in theory. I might add something similar to the Tumble skill...

-Profession: a fair choice, though I don't think it's any more useless than craft, just less explicitly stated. I assume you'll be using a Piloting skill for sailors and making appropriate substitutions for races that have profession bonuses.

In my years of playing I've never seen anyone roll for Profession. If it ever comes up, I'd rule something instead, probably an ability check or another appropriate skill.

-Nightsticks: If it's just a turning battery stacking shouldn't be too bad, but you've got it right.

To me, Nightsticks should fall under the "unnamed bonus from the same source" rule, which is why I don't let them stack.

-Hit Dice: Didn't notice this one before. You do realize that you just sent direct damage from "unoptimized" to "the crapper"? Healing will be weaker as well. Basically anything to do with hp is now weaker than before, since everything has more hp, and moving outside the hp system will be more profitable than ever. As long as you know that, go on ahead.

The idea is to reduce one/two-shot kills on both sides of the DM screen (and also, to remove the chance of rolling a one on the d10 when you level up). I admit I hadn't considered the healing implications... I'll probably need to boost healing magic a bit. Maybe add a flat x1.5 multiplier to all hit point healing spells. I'll give it some thought...

-Polymorph: as always, you're really going to have to define "experience", especially since knowledge checks can provide substantial info RAW. If you want to crack down and get gruesome, you could require a personally harvested piece of a creature to limit it.

I'll tackle that when/if it comes to it. It's basically an explicitly stated "no, you can't polymorph into a fleshraker/cryohydra/whatever you found in that obscure source there". I'd require first-hand experience, Knowledge rolls wouldn't work for these purposes, allowing me to regulate what goes into the game.

-Called outsiders: good for bookkeeping, though fluff-wise it doesn' make sense. Do note that such abilities are part of the creature's CR, and without them the caster might be getting shortchanged.

I put this in there mainly so that infinite titan loops are not possible As I said, I don't expect it to come up...

-Bonus 0th slots: heck, I'd go one further and just extrapolate the table backwards so you get bonus 0 slots sooner.

If I did that, you'd get a bonus cantrip for a stat of 10, which is the minimum needed to cast it. Also, it's simpler to just say it's the same as bonus 1st level spells.

I'll get back to the rest of you later, gotta run now.

[MeklorIlavator]

For the spiked chain; It should be superior, otherwise why would you spend a feat on it? It needs some toning down, true, but not that much.

[Swooper]

Okay, as a martial artist and exotic dancer I have to object on professional grounds to the assertion that all double weapons are silly. Especially since the Dwarven Urgosh is just a reflavoured poleaxe.

The difference between a poleaxe and an urgrosh is that the urgrosh has the spearhead on the low end of the pole. I can see that being useful for hitting something behind you in a narrow tunnel or something, but I really can't see anyone actually attacking something in front of them with both the spearhead and the axehead in the same 6-second-period in a way that would be more effective than using just the axe. Most of the other double weapons seem pretty impossible to use in an actual fight without chopping your own arms off or spilling your guts all over the place. Though I'll admit, I'm no expert.

Why ban the Monk class? That means you're forcing people in your game to choose what you, as a player, would choose instead. Going with a weak class, or using any class ineffectively, should be available player choices. People will learn more by making their own decisions and seeing what problems ensue. Let them.

To be honest, I'd rather not. I'm trying to keep this game balanced but high-powered, and letting someone play a monk as-written is in tone with neither. If someone really really wants to play a monk and not a swordsage, I'd consent if they could find a decent monk rewrite (and monks really need a rewrite from scratch, no simple fix will do). To me, though, the Swordsage is a monk rewrite.

Your boosting of skill points at the low end really diminishes the relative effectiveness of skill-intensive classes like Rogue and Scout. I don't like that at all.

It's really not taking anything away from these classes, they still have the most skill points and huge class skill lists. It's just helping out the other classes that rarely have enough skill points to do what they're supposed to be able to do (like clerics, who kind of need Concentration, Knowledge: Religion, Spellcraft and... wait, I'm out of skill points!), which doesn't really step on anyone's toes in my opinion.

For the spiked chain; It should be superior, otherwise why would you spend a feat on it? It needs some toning down, true, but not that much.

It's superior to all the other exotic weapons, too, which is lame. Also, how is it an "exotic" weapon if every single trip fighter uses it?

[Tempest Fennac]

Wouldn't giving Clerics more skill points while taking their stong Fort save be more about reshuffling weaknesses rather then balancing them, though? I always thought the lack of skill points for Clerics was a good thing due to them being strong in so many other areas.

[Myou]

Wouldn't giving Clerics more skill points while taking their stong Fort save be more about reshuffling weaknesses rather then balancing them, though? I always thought the lack of skill points for Clerics was a good thing due to them being strong in so many other areas.

Agreed, they spend all their effort on their religion and still find time to be melee warriors too, more skill points is too much.

[MeklorIlavator]

It's superior to all the other exotic weapons, too, which is lame. Also, how is it an "exotic" weapon if every single trip fighter uses it?

Well, that's largely because most exotic weapons aren't worth the feat. Sure, the Spiked chain could use a little nerfing, but I feel you were going to far in the other direction.

And of course every trip fighter uses it. They have feats to spare, and if you can spare the feats it is an objectively better weapon. Just like a +1 weapon is objectively superior to a normal one as long as you don't care about the cost.

[Zherog]

The idea is to reduce one/two-shot kills on both sides of the DM screen (and also, to remove the chance of rolling a one on the d10 when you level up). I admit I hadn't considered the healing implications... I'll probably need to boost healing magic a bit. Maybe add a flat x1.5 multiplier to all hit point healing spells. I'll give it some thought...

In my games, I resolve this by allowing players to roll for hit points, but guaranteeing they get at least half their hit die. So, for example, if a paladin rolls a 1 on his d10, it automatically becomes a 5.

So far, my players have really liked it.

*

Concentration: The DC to Cast Defensively is not a static 15, but rather: 10 + BAB of threatening foe + Spell Level of the spell you are trying to cast.

Casting a spell defensively isn't a fixed DC of 15.

Special: You can use Concentration to cast a spell, use a spell-like ability, or use a skill defensively, so as to avoid attacks of opportunity altogether. This doesn’t apply to other actions that might provoke attacks of opportunity.

The DC of the check is 15 (plus the spell’s level, if casting a spell or using a spell-like ability defensively). ...

So the DC already scales by spell level.

[Tempest Fennac]

For HPs, I give players a choice between rolling or taking average HPs, but I make them keep the result if they roll (I tend to think it's their choice whether they take the risk or not).

[Swooper]

Wouldn't giving Clerics more skill points while taking their stong Fort save be more about reshuffling weaknesses rather then balancing them, though? I always thought the lack of skill points for Clerics was a good thing due to them being strong in so many other areas.

Sure, it's a slight boost to clerics (and others) - But do note that this is a gestalt game. If a player chooses two classes that both happen to have only two skill points per level, he's not going to be able to fill each role adequately.

Well, that's largely because most exotic weapons aren't worth the feat.

Fair enough.

Sure, the Spiked chain could use a little nerfing, but I feel you were going to far in the other direction.

Bottom line: I don't like spiked chains so I don't allow them. This dislike is grounded partly in power, partly in flavour.

Casting a spell defensively isn't a fixed DC of 15.

Uhm, I know, I guess I was just lazy when wording the rule. I'll go fix that now. The point is that Concentration DCs are too low, really.

[Gamiress]

The difference between a poleaxe and an urgrosh is that the urgrosh has the spearhead on the low end of the pole. I can see that being useful for hitting something behind you in a narrow tunnel or something, but I really can't see anyone actually attacking something in front of them with both the spearhead and the axehead in the same 6-second-period in a way that would be more effective than using just the axe. Most of the other double weapons seem pretty impossible to use in an actual fight without chopping your own arms off or spilling your guts all over the place. Though I'll admit, I'm no expert.

Obviously you're not, or you'd know that a pointy bit on the butt of the queue is a standard feature on poleaxes used in just about every parry possible for the weapon.

Here's a video on how poleaxes are supposed to be used (hint: stop thinking of it as a battleaxe, it's more like a glaive)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4TKHBoaK5o&NR=1

Six seconds is a long time.

[Tempest Fennac]

I'm sorry about missing that bit. In that case, it's not really a problem (in this sort of game anyway).

[streakster]

I am 9000% behind you on the monk replacement thing. Bravo. Just in case, though, here's an excellent monk rewrite by the legendary Frank and K.

[Draz74]

Any comments/criticisms?

On class balance, reflecting what you've already laid out ...

Full casters will still be the most powerful characters if they're well optimized. I assume you are cool with that.

Dragon Shamans are still weak.

Psychic Warriors are now just plain amazing -- better than ToB characters. PsyWar//Swordsage synergy was already excellent, but now it's just overwhelming.

As long as we're adding skills to the Sorcerer list, I wouldn't add Diplomacy until I'd already added Disguise, Knowledge (the planes), Knowledge (religion), Sense Motive, and even Gather Information. (I use a Sorcerer skill list that's kind of a combination of the Warlock and Binder skill lists, minus the funky acrobatics and UMD of the Warlock.)

[Fizban]

A bit of both. Part personal dislike of spiked chains, part the fact that they obsolete every other reach weapon. If I'd allow them, I'd probably nerf them to work like whips: They don't threaten.

That's also a good idea.

Realmshelp is allowed on a case-by-case basis as other web sources. There's so much stuff in there (the feat database takes literally minutes to load) that I'd rather not open up the whole thing.

Definitely, I agree.

As mentioned at the top, it's a gestalt game

So it is, so it is then.

Hmm, not too sure on this one. The fractional bonuses rule explicitly states that you get the +2.

I haven't actually looked at the entry in a while, but getting an extra +2 to a save every time you pick up a new class (in gestalt, where you can do so practically for free), isn't a good idea IMO. It changes the save curve from +6/+12 to +0/+40 (the default rule is the same, but still wrong). The way saves work should be +2 the first time you take a class with a good save, and then +1/2 levels after that for good saves and +1/3 for bad. Since it's gestalt everyone should have all good saves anyway, but letting multiclassing stack +2's means all the multi/prestige classing just buffs their saves through the roof.

Skills are easy enough to boost, it just means that concentration doesn't "max out" at +13 I think. At least in theory. I might add something similar to the Tumble skill...

Yup, just wanted to make sure you weren't making any projected DC assumptions, but you're good.

In my years of playing I've never seen anyone roll for Profession. If it ever comes up, I'd rule something instead, probably an ability check or another appropriate skill.

The main thing is that the WoTC books with ships in them use profession (sailor) or profession (pilot) to handle maneuvering and sinking, so if you want to use ship to ship combat at some point you'll have to make a substitution or your own rules.

To me, Nightsticks should fall under the "unnamed bonus from the same source" rule, which is why I don't let them stack.

That's a tricky one, especially when considering rods and stuff that isn't always equipped. In a slight "same source" tangent: when using multiple resist energy spells, do you count each energy type as different, allowing resistance to multiple energies from multiple castings, or do subsequent castings overwrite the previous spells so that you may only have one type of resistance? I go with the former, since there are two different castings in play, granting different bonuses (different types of resistance).

The idea is to reduce one/two-shot kills on both sides of the DM screen (and also, to remove the chance of rolling a one on the d10 when you level up). I admit I hadn't considered the healing implications... I'll probably need to boost healing magic a bit. Maybe add a flat x1.5 multiplier to all hit point healing spells. I'll give it some thought...

You can always just take average hp, or do the minumum half suggested above. I admit I just don't like seeing fireball made so useless, but if you don't expect any damage dealing spells that aren't metamagicked out the wazoo, then it won't matter.

I put this in there mainly so that infinite titan loops are not possible As I said, I don't expect it to come up...

I think that only really comes up with Gate, since Greater Planar Binding has an 18 HD limit, and the creatures that could summon themselves are all over that limit. *Checks SRD*

Actually, Trumpet Archons could Planar Ally for more Trumpet Archons with a little xp cost, and a Planetar from a Greater Binding/Ally could then Gate for a Solar to start your infinite chain. Of course, this all assumes they have those spells prepared and have xp to spare for casting, but you're right, it does need something to cover it.

If I did that, you'd get a bonus cantrip for a stat of 10, which is the minimum needed to cast it. Also, it's simpler to just say it's the same as bonus 1st level spells.

True, I just like table extrapolation that I can figure out. The Epic Level Handbook just says "and the table proceeds the same way" without telling you the formula. I just look at the 10 figure numbers and give up, but I think the 3.5 DMG at least spells them out for you.

[Swooper]

I am 9000% behind you on the monk replacement thing. Bravo. Just in case, though, here's an excellent monk rewrite by the legendary Frank and K.

Glad someone agrees with me there. Interesting Monk rewrite. I'll bookmark it and take a better look later.

Full casters will still be the most powerful characters if they're well optimized. I assume you are cool with that.

Pretty much yeah. The entire system would need to be rewritten for them to be balanced, so I just try to hold on to the leash so to speak.

Dragon Shamans are still weak.

They're actually quite decent in gestalt as a passive support class, even without the buff. Not strong, but decent. There's even one in the group, actually.

Psychic Warriors are now just plain amazing -- better than ToB characters. PsyWar//Swordsage synergy was already excellent, but now it's just overwhelming.

Hmm, my feeling for PsyWars was that they were slightly worse than Duskblades (if more versatile), the idea was to bring them up to roughly the level of Duskblades and ToB. Got any suggestions for a better fix of that nature than simply increasing the BAB?

As long as we're adding skills to the Sorcerer list, I wouldn't add Diplomacy until I'd already added Disguise, Knowledge (the planes), Knowledge (religion), Sense Motive, and even Gather Information. (I use a Sorcerer skill list that's kind of a combination of the Warlock and Binder skill lists, minus the funky acrobatics and UMD of the Warlock.)

It's a matter of taste I guess - I just wanted to give them a bit more Charisma-based skills. Knowledge (the planes) might be a good idea, not so sure about the others.

That's also a good idea.

Again, glad someone agrees with me.

I haven't actually looked at the entry in a while, but getting an extra +2 to a save every time you pick up a new class (in gestalt, where you can do so practically for free), isn't a good idea IMO. It changes the save curve from +6/+12 to +0/+40 (the default rule is the same, but still wrong). The way saves work should be +2 the first time you take a class with a good save, and then +1/2 levels after that for good saves and +1/3 for bad. Since it's gestalt everyone should have all good saves anyway, but letting multiclassing stack +2's means all the multi/prestige classing just buffs their saves through the roof.

I'm not convinced it's going to be that extreme... I've been fiddling with a gestalt build (bard/virtuoso/sublime chord//paladin of freedom/warblade/arcane duellist) for the last few days, and did the math... At 20th level, she has +13/+10/+16 base saves (admittedly, goes to +26/+26/+26 with cha to saves and expected stats at 20), would have +11/+10/+12 without the +2 at each new class. The difference is +2/0/+4. Too much? Maybe, but I'm not convinced.

You could of course bring the saves higher if you go and abuse that, but then you're likely gimping yourself in some other way... I don't see it as a problem as-is, but if it turns out that the players have too high saves, I'll go ahead and implement this. In any case, thanks for the pointer

The main thing is that the WoTC books with ships in them use profession (sailor) or profession (pilot) to handle maneuvering and sinking, so if you want to use ship to ship combat at some point you'll have to make a substitution or your own rules.

Noted. I'll figure something out if it comes to naval warfare at some point.

That's a tricky one, especially when considering rods and stuff that isn't always equipped. In a slight "same source" tangent: when using multiple resist energy spells, do you count each energy type as different, allowing resistance to multiple energies from multiple castings, or do subsequent castings overwrite the previous spells so that you may only have one type of resistance? I go with the former, since there are two different castings in play, granting different bonuses (different types of resistance).

I'd go with the former as well - They're different kinds of bonuses even if they come from the same source.

I think that only really comes up with Gate, since Greater Planar Binding has an 18 HD limit, and the creatures that could summon themselves are all over that limit. *Checks SRD*

Actually, Trumpet Archons could Planar Ally for more Trumpet Archons with a little xp cost, and a Planetar from a Greater Binding/Ally could then Gate for a Solar to start your infinite chain. Of course, this all assumes they have those spells prepared and have xp to spare for casting, but you're right, it does need something to cover it.

That was the idea ^^

True, I just like table extrapolation that I can figure out. The Epic Level Handbook just says "and the table proceeds the same way" without telling you the formula. I just look at the 10 figure numbers and give up, but I think the 3.5 DMG at least spells them out for you.

The formula isn't that complex actually - Bonus lvl x spell at ability mod +x, 2 bonus spells 8 points higher etc. I never even look at the table when making spellcasters anymore.

[Zherog]

It's a matter of taste I guess - I just wanted to give them a bit more Charisma-based skills. Knowledge (the planes) might be a good idea, not so sure about the others.

Disguise and Gather Info are Charisma-based.

I also give sorcerers Diplomacy and Intimidate. The PHB flavor text rambles on about sorcerers are often the "face" of the party, and then... only gives them bluff.

[Draz74]

They're actually quite decent in gestalt as a passive support class, even without the buff. Not strong, but decent. There's even one in the group, actually.

Yeah, Gestalt does cover for some of their most annoying flaws (medium BAB ) quite nicely. But even then, I was just making sure you knew they still wouldn't be strong (largely since their breath weapon will still do unimpressive damage).

Hmm, my feeling for PsyWars was that they were slightly worse than Duskblades (if more versatile), the idea was to bring them up to roughly the level of Duskblades and ToB. Got any suggestions for a better fix of that nature than simply increasing the BAB?

PsyWars are marginally weaker than Duskblades or ToB classes, yeah -- at least that's what the optimizers say -- but not much. Still in the same "tier" by most accounts. And the Slayer PrC helps close the gap, too.

That being said ... what they really hurt for isn't BAB, it's just enough PP to have any endurance. So yes, I would suggest a very simple alternative that actually sounds really fun:

Bonus PP per encounter equal to their PsyWar level.

It's a matter of taste I guess - I just wanted to give them a bit more Charisma-based skills. Knowledge (the planes) might be a good idea, not so sure about the others.

Kinda weird IMHO to give any class Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate, but not Sense Motive. Even if it isn't CHA-based.

Know(religion) and Gather Info are kinda iffy, I guess. But if you added Intimidate, Know(planes), Disguise, and Sense Motive, that's pretty close to my picture of a proper Sorc list.

[Fizban]

I'm not convinced it's going to be that extreme... I've been fiddling with a gestalt build (bard/virtuoso/sublime chord//paladin of freedom/warblade/arcane duellist) for the last few days, and did the math... At 20th level, she has +13/+10/+16 base saves (admittedly, goes to +26/+26/+26 with cha to saves and expected stats at 20), would have +11/+10/+12 without the +2 at each new class. The difference is +2/0/+4. Too much? Maybe, but I'm not convinced.

You could of course bring the saves higher if you go and abuse that, but then you're likely gimping yourself in some other way... I don't see it as a problem as-is, but if it turns out that the players have too high saves, I'll go ahead and implement this. In any case, thanks for the pointer

Compared to the standard of +6/+6/+12 or +6/+12/+12 it's definitely up there, though for gestalt you might as well assume +12/+12/+12. Maybe the +2/0/+4 difference isn't too much, but it's still significant enough to matter. I've always figured that they're already getting a bonus from multiclassing class features, but extra save boosts aren't accounted for when designing PrCs (you just pick progressions an move on), so it's an unintended power boost, if minor. My thoughts.

I'd go with the former as well - They're different kinds of bonuses even if they come from the same source.

Glad to see we agree

The formula isn't that complex actually - Bonus lvl x spell at ability mod +x, 2 bonus spells 8 points higher etc. I never even look at the table when making spellcasters anymore.

Oh, not the bonus spell slots table, that you can just translate position on if you don't want to use the formula. I was thinking of the xp and gp progessions.