How will 4E work for video games?

[holywhippet]

I've been trying to work out how D&D 4E rules will be used when it comes to video games. 2E and 3E had to be changed a bit to make it work. But 4E has more of a focus on tactical combat. Shifting and positioning are more focused on under the new rules. Then there's the matter of using powers rather than just making regular attacks.

I can see how a 4E game would work, if they move back to tile based combat like the old gold box games, or switch to something like the tactics games (eg. final fantasy tactics) but I can't see a realtime 4E being particularly viable.

[Tengu_temp]

I agree - 4e would make a very good turn-based video game (like tactical RPGs or those very old DND games like Pool of Radiance or Champions of Krynn), but making a real-time RPG out of it (like NWN or Baldur's Gate) would require cutting/modifying too much stuff - all the powers that let you move opponents and allies, for example.

[Little_Rudo]

The protagonist character should be a Warlord. Every time I play a turn-based RPG now, I can just see the main character as a Warlord-esque guy shouting orders. :)

[Cubey]

I've been trying to work out how D&D 4E rules will be used when it comes to video games.

"I nail him for 4 damage!"

[The New Bruceski]

"I nail him for 4 damage!"

So just like 3.5-based video games?

[Myatar_Panwar]

I can totally see it as a turn-based tile game, such as Ogre Tactics and Final Fantasy Tactics. Not sure how they would do a real time version.

[Colmarr]

Not sure how they would do a real time version.

The same way they did real-time 3.X games (such as "D&D Heroes" and "Dark Alliance"): by using all of the appropriate names but changing the mechanics entirely.

but making a real-time RPG out of it would require cutting/modifying too much stuff - all the powers that let you move opponents and allies, for example.

I'm not sure I agree with you. Push effects and pull effects are easily coded. It's mainly the slide effects and non-attack immediate interrupts that would be difficult and might need to be "overlooked".

[Myatar_Panwar]

It would be crazy difficult to do with every class having powers and whatnot which can be used every battle and w/o rest. It would require a crazy amount of switching around characters and clicking as fast as you can in order to control a whole party each round.

I guess what they could do is maybe just have at-willpowers act as normal attacks if not used specifically, and encounter/daily powers being used through normal pick and click. Or maybe you just control only one character while the rest of the party acts independently.

This is of course with staying true to the game, though I suppose they could change... well alot to make it work.

[Hal]

Haven't you been paying attention? It's called WoW.

(I don't actually believe that, but I'm surprised it hasn't come up already)

[The Glyphstone]

Nah, WoW has more customization than 4E.

[/kid]

[Thajocoth]

Ever play Mass Effect?

You only control yourself, not your allies, but you can direct your allies. One button for each at-will power... And a button to bring up the power wheel, on which are all your encounters & dailies (and your ally's powers as well, to tell them to use them). Select a power, point & click... And slide if need be. The allies will use their own powers based on AI (shut off-able for non at-wills), unless you direct them to use a power, upon which they'll use it then.

And everyone will automatically take AOs almost always when possible.

[Mando Knight]

I could see it done like Fire Emblem: Turn-based strategy for combat, with powers selected from a list, with a preview window and combat animation...

[holywhippet]

Haven't you been paying attention? It's called WoW.

(I don't actually believe that, but I'm surprised it hasn't come up already)

It has been said that 4E borrows heavily from WoW. But WoW is a single player game in that you are only controlling one character. One of the problems of real time RPGs is trying to manage an entire party all at once.

The NWN 2 games show up a large chunk of the problem - a fight starts and all the monsters ignore your fighters and pile onto your mage. In 4E you'd want to be using powers and the terrain to cover your vulnerable characters to stop that kind of thing. It's not so easy when you aren't using a tile based system though.

[Behold_the_Void]

I would totally play a 4e SRPG. That'd be sweet.

[Crow]

Nah, WoW has more customization than 4E.

[/kid]

LOL, funny.

[Arros Winhadren]

I agree that Final Fantasy Tactics or Tactics Ogre are your best bets for inspiration. I would totally play a FFT game with a D&D setting.

[Dhavaer]

I agree with the tactics suggestions. I don't think 4e would work well at all in real-time.

[Dragonsdoom]

From what I understand, it won't.

I remember hearing something about this a while back and ran across this on the wizards boards:

There is no d20 "electronic game" license. The current d20 System Trademark License forbids anyone from making an electronic game.

You'll need an exclusive license. HOWEVER, Vivendi/Atari have been granted electronic right to publish D&D electronic games. You'll have to talk to Vivendi/Atari about what kind of D&D game you like.

Very sad indeed. I am not a fan of 4e, but I am heavily associated with the video games industry and would consider this a bad thing.
If I remember correctly, this specific reason is why Bioware was forced into making their own rpg system for the upcoming Dragon Age: Origins. Although they did not mind that a great deal.

[Tengu_temp]

I assume they're afraid to give the license so freely after 3.0 spawned one good (NWN) and several... not-so-good (ToEE, Pool of Radiance, the Eberron MMO) video games.

[Triaxx]

Hey! ToEE was good for what it was. It's pretty much required that you play with Circle of Eight's additions though, otherwise it's not really 3.5.

Actually from what I know, the ToEE engine if tuned for bugs would work very well with 4e and it's already turn-based.

[Tiki Snakes]

Frankly, knowing as I do at least a little bit about making video games, I really don't see that 4th edition would provide any significant challenges not already present in 3.5. In addition to that, the way it's moved away from the whole sleep-after-every-encounter thing of 3.5, amongst other things, means for my mind that it would be if anything, much simpler.

But really, I don't see why you'd need to? This was my problem with many 3.5 based games. Sure, set it in the Forgotten Realms, whatever. Great. Why do you need to emulate rules for tabletop playing? This is a Computer Game! It often seemed to needlessly complicate things, to me.

[kamikasei]

I agree - 4e would make a very good turn-based video game (like tactical RPGs or those very old DND games like Pool of Radiance or Champions of Krynn), but making a real-time RPG out of it (like NWN or Baldur's Gate) would require cutting/modifying too much stuff - all the powers that let you move opponents and allies, for example.

In the case of NWN (the only one I've played), at least, I think it failed in converting 3.x to real-time (and the same can probably be said for KOTOR); I would have been a lot happier with a clearly turn-based, grid-based, movement and action system that kept the same tactical dimension as the PnP version, than with the inscrutable sytem they actually implemented where as far as I could ever tell you could neglect to take any action or waste your standard action by moving 5' too far without ever realising what was happening.

[Tengu_temp]

Of course, NWN was first and foremost a multiplayer game and therefore real time was the only sane solution.

[Theodoriph]

I think 4e would work much better than 3e did.

Daily and encounter problems aren't much of a problem...you just select them and use them, like you did with daily powers in 3e games.

Attacking would likewise be the same.

Positioning has always been problematic. Ugh, in NWN they tried to be cute and had people in fights circling each other...it was real pain in the ass since the rogue didn't always move to maintain his flanking position NWN2 was likewise a pain in the ass for things like flanking =D

I can remember wanting to pull out my hair with regards to positioning in Icewind Dale I and II.



In short, it'd work much like 3rd ed....except that when you played 3rd ed games and were a wizard....you wanted to cry. Playing a rogue was frustrating too. Hell, playing a sorceror in NWN was annoying.

Yes NWN developers...great idea...have a sorceror and a rogue team up to combat evil!! They can take on anything! Yeah...not so much early on.


Edit:

I still remember the playing Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven and casting Fly for the first time. It was amazing! Might and Magic VI has to be one of the best CRPGs ever made

If any of you kiddies who were young and ignorant when it came out want to play an amazing game from the 90s...I highly recommend it

[Tengu_temp]

Might and Magic 6 was released in 1998, which means after 1995, which means it's not old by my standards.

And I like jRPGs better. Final Fantasy 6 = win.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Frankly, knowing as I do at least a little bit about making video games, I really don't see that 4th edition would provide any significant challenges not already present in 3.5. In addition to that, the way it's moved away from the whole sleep-after-every-encounter thing of 3.5, amongst other things, means for my mind that it would be if anything, much simpler.

Nothing broke all illusions of immersion like having my Dark Queen of Krynn party rest 24+ hours after every fight. (It takes 24+ hours because every spell takes, what, 15 minutes per level to memorize, on top of an 8-hour rest? And you had to use all of them in every fight, pretty much.)

I yearn for new turn-based D&D games. 4E would make it awesome and tactical; the only real tactics in the old Gold Box games (and Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gates, for that matter) was spell selection and use.

[Theodoriph]

Nothing broke all illusions of immersion like having my Dark Queen of Krynn party rest 24+ hours after every fight. (It takes 24+ hours because every spell takes, what, 15 minutes per level to memorize, on top of an 8-hour rest? And you had to use all of them in every fight, pretty much.)

I yearn for new turn-based D&D games. 4E would make it awesome and tactical; the only real tactics in the old Gold Box games (and Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gates, for that matter) was spell selection and use.

24 hours....24 hours!! Oh my god....that's like nothing In Icewind Dale, there were times I'd get injured and I'd go to the inn...and no jokes, the game would tell me like over 300 days had passed. My characters went to a cave...brought back some loot...rested...and went back to the cave...like a year later. It was ridiculous.

Every time you camped outside though...you recovered everything in like a day. Good thing too...a year of camping outside in the winter would be harsh. I just checked a website...apparently if you rested outside, the game assumed your clerics prepared healing spells and healed you...which is why you didn't get any ridiculously long resting times while camping.

[Tengu_temp]

Well, in Might and Magic each time you took a level, you had to go to a trainer and spend several days (probably a week, but I'm not 100% sure) leveling - and while one character was doing so, the other three couldn't train at the same time, oh no - they had to wait for their turn. Seeing that in those games you could easily reach level 50-100 and even more by the end of the game, your quest took you several years, most of which was spent on training in order to level up.