Mutants and Masterminds

[pyrefiend]

I like the idea of a superhero campaign, and I've heard a few good things about the Mutants and Masterminds system. I'm not sure I want to spend the money though. I'd like to know if anyone in the playground has any opinions about it either way.

[Kyeudo]

Very very flexible system. Character Creation is complicated, but the rest of the system is not. You can make almost any character concept you choose. I have a magical guitar player stuffed somewhere in a binder.

[The Rose Dragon]

It's awesome.

It's also the Greatest Superhero RPG in the World. It says so right on the cover.

However, I advise you to get the 2nd Edition. While the 1st Edition is great, it is much less intuitive and revealing than 2nd Edition.

There are three things you cannot do with M&M without changing it to a level where it is no longer recognizable.

1. Real life.

2. Advancement at low levels without quickly getting to over 9000 power levels (not Power Levels, though).

3. Monty Haul games, where you get lots of shiny loot and become so riddled with magic anyone who can Detect (magic), Ranged, Acute, Accurate and Extended can see you as bright as a sun.

Other than that, it can do anything you want, and do it well.

[Warpfire]

From my little experience, it looks like a great system.

If only I could play a game of it that doesn't die before it begins or very soon after. That's what I get for only doing PbP these days, I suppose...

[Starscream]

I have nothing but praise for this system. It is quite simply the best Superhero game I've ever encountered.

Although there are some balance issues (a determined player can break it quite easily), it is also the one system in which badass normal heroes like Batman can be on equal footing with guys like Superman and have it actually make sense.

The sheer number of available powers is also impressive. And the rules are similar enough to D&D that a player can pick it up quickly, but different enough to have its own flavor.

I give the system a solid A+.

[Ladorak]

M&M rocks.

I would say you have to have a certain state of mind while making charaters. Rather then trying to build like in D&D you should start with a concept, like any concept, and build up from there. It's fairly easy to break, but you can make pretty much anything

[Dhavaer]

Agreed with the above. An excellent game that can be used for a lot of things beyond superheroes.

[Morty]

People here seem to love it, although the reasons for which they love it make me suspicious of this game. I seem to be alone in this though, so I guess it's a good choice.

[Saph]

Just to chip in on the other side: our group was playing a M&M campaign before I left for China. While fun, by the end it had gotten to the point where I was noticing the flaws.

The big one is character balance. Some powers are WAY more deadly than others, and the system seems to encourage players to munchkin (particularly with alternate power arrays). None of our players actively tried to make a broken character, but by the end we had:

• One Batman-type character with acrobatics, flame gauntlets, and a bunch of useful skills. Although he didn't have any super-powers he was fairly tough and resilient and had some useful gear.
• One nano-machine using character who had a Corrosion power that killed anything it hit with a 60%-70% success rate, who was tough enough to shrug off almost any attack without damage, who could regenerate any damage he did take, including death, and who could also fly, go incorporeal, and communicate via radio waves.

So basically we had one guy who was ordinary-but-with-some-tricks, and one guy who was invulnerable and unbeatable and unstoppable.

It made combats more like theatre than anything else. You flew around trying to look cool while you waited for the Hulk to finish the guy off.

That said, on the occasions where I got to use my powers on my own (without anyone else butting in) I had a lot of fun - there's an awful lot of cool stuff you can do with a PL 10 character. But the system falls apart very easily.

- Saph

[The Rose Dragon]

So does D&D 3.5, to be honest.

The system encourages GM supervision rather than munchkinism. If you have a GM who doesn't understand the game, you're gonna have a poor game. But then again, that is true for most games.

[Tsotha-lanti]

M&M 1st ed. is one of the worst d20 games I have ever come across. It's worse than Cyberscape, it's worse than d20 Fading Suns. It's D&D with superheroes slapped on it.

M&M 2nd ed. is the single best thing ever to use a d20. I'm a way bigger fan of other genres and games, but as far as sheer innovation, coolness, smoothness, and versatility goes, it's the best there is, as far as I'm concerned.

It absolutely will fall apart if treated badly enough, though. It requires cooperation, playing along, and getting into the spirit of it - like every single other RPG. It's incredibly easy to create completely overpowered characters (in fact, you only really need Duplicate or Mimic; hey, you can even array them!). But that's not the point. The GM has to help the players create the characters and make sure everything's on the level (like I always do in every RPG ever anyway!). The GM has to prohibit certain powers (Mimic and Duplicate past certain levels, etc.) and combinations of powers (arrays have to be thematically linked, even if it's as loose as "Magic!").

[Saph]

The GM has to prohibit certain powers (Mimic and Duplicate past certain levels, etc.) and combinations of powers (arrays have to be thematically linked, even if it's as loose as "Magic!").

Unfortunately, all that means is that characters who pick the right 'themes' are way more powerful than those who don't. It turns out that the "My body uses nanites that can repair or destroy things" theme is an awful lot more effective than the "I'm an ordinary well-trained guy with some good gear" theme.

So does D&D 3.5, to be honest.

The system encourages GM supervision rather than munchkinism. If you have a GM who doesn't understand the game, you're gonna have a poor game. But then again, that is true for most games.

We've found it more of an issue for M&M than for 3.5. The main reason is that standard M&M games start at a much higher level than D&D 3.5 ones. It's easy to end up with a huge differential between characters, even if you're not actively trying to do it.

- Saph

[Collin152]

even if it's as loose as "Magic!").

You realise that every single power in the book can fall under the header of magic?

[The Rose Dragon]

You realise that every single power in the book can fall under the header of magic?

That's why UP and BoM suggest dividing magic further into subcategories.

[Hawriel]

I picked up the core M&M book afew months ago. Read it in a few days and loved it. Honestly its no more complicated than 3rd ed. However I would say alot of things, like combat, are more stream lined. Charcter creation, and advancement is pritty much D&D turned into a point system. Damn cool.

[Satyr]

Yes, Mutants and Masterminds is a very good game, especially in questions of character options, flexibility of the character creation and even a bit fine tuning. Compared to the progenitor D20, the system is quite impressive. Compared to Gurps: Powers, it is not. But being the second best super power game, isn't that bad, either.

[The Rose Dragon]

I've mostly heard bad things about GURPS: Powers, actually, so I'm going to take that with a grain of salt.

When there is a discussion about good superhero games, the first two to be mentioned is Champions and M&M. GURPS: Powers gets mentioned very rarely, if ever.

[Drascin]

We've found it more of an issue for M&M than for 3.5. The main reason is that standard M&M games start at a much higher level than D&D 3.5 ones. It's easy to end up with a huge differential between characters, even if you're not actively trying to do it.

True, true - it is easier to see because most people start M&M at level 10, but start D&D at about level 3-4, when classes still have a semblance of balance.

And M&M, great as it is, is remarkably easy to break, because of its flexibility. But then, a lot of generalist point-based games seem to have this. Breaking GURPS is pretty easy, breaking BESM is basically automatic... point-based games seem to rather require a GM that knows his way around the rules to put some hard caps.

That nothwithstanding, I have to add myself to the pile of praises. It's a great game that manages to be impressively flexible without drowning you in 9001 optional rules, like GURPS tends to do. I am playing in one PbP campaign using it, and running a tabletop one myself as well. None of them are even remotedly related to superheroes, and the game is still doing great.

So really, OP, give it a look. It's really great.

[Tsotha-lanti]

I've mostly heard bad things about GURPS: Powers, actually, so I'm going to take that with a grain of salt.

When there is a discussion about good superhero games, the first two to be mentioned is Champions and M&M. GURPS: Powers gets mentioned very rarely, if ever.

GURPS anything is good if you like the GURPS rules. If you don't, they're all pretty horrible to play.

[The Rose Dragon]

The bad things I heard were from people who had nothing but praise for it in different genres, though.

[Tengu_temp]

I am playing in one PbP campaign using it, and running a tabletop one myself as well. None of them are even remotedly related to superheroes, and the game is still doing great.

Well, truth to be told, magical girls are as close to superheroes in anime terms as possible without stepping into Power Rangers territory.