Looking for a Cha-based caster (3.X)

[afroakuma]

As the title says, I'm looking for a Charisma-based caster class (preferably full-casting) that ideally is not divine (so no Favored Soul).

And before anyone suggests it, yes: I have heard of sorcerers.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Off the top of my head

Well, theres Spirit Shaman, but thats divine.

Warlock

Warmage

[Assassin89]

Warmage from Complete Arcane is one class. This class does not suffer from arcane spell failure provided that the character is wearing light armor, but it would progress to medium armor after a certain level.

[kamikasei]

Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror). But surely you have a more specific requirement than "non-divine cha-based full caster, but not a sorcerer"... what are you after?

[Jack_Simth]

There's the Generic Spellcaster from UA.

[The Glyphstone]

There's Bard into Sublime Chord, though that requires PrCing.

[Dacia Brabant]

As the title says, I'm looking for a Charisma-based caster class (preferably full-casting) that ideally is not divine (so no Favored Soul).

And before anyone suggests it, yes: I have heard of sorcerers.

Okay, but have you heard of Bards?

(Not full casting I know, but there's at least one way to get that.)

But yeah, what do you have in mind? A Warlock is pretty vastly different from a Warmage but they both use the same stat. Also if you don't mind psionics instead you could go with a Wilder.

[afroakuma]

But surely you have a more specific requirement than "non-divine cha-based full caster, but not a sorcerer"... what are you after?

No, that's pretty much where I'm going.

I'm looking for relatively broad spell selection, with some scary spell access, and Charisma-based casting. I'm not sure how much more specific I can be.

[Saint Nil]

Personally, I suggest the dread necroamncer class. It offers plenty of perks besides its full casting focus of necromancy such as zombie traits, DR, and makes it far simplier to become a lich if that is what you are looking for.

Warmage is another good class if your looking for your typical blaster type. Both allow the use of light armor, giving you a better AC.

[Thurbane]

There's also the Battle Sorcerer variant from UA, although if you don't like Sorcerer, that probably won't appeal...

I also recommend Dread Necromancer or Warmage.

[afroakuma]

Dread necromancer is a definite "No." Warmage feels a bit limited to me in terms of spell selection.

[Saint Nil]

Well, no dread necromancer or warmage then. Sorcerer is kind of obvious, but I can't really think of many others. You could go wizard/sorcerer/Ultimate Magus if your looking for broad spell casting skills.

[Draz74]

What exactly is wrong with Sorcerer? Because it sounds like it's exactly what you're looking for. Any other class that met all of your requirements would be a waste of ink because it would be so similar to Sorcerer.

[afroakuma]

What exactly is wrong with Sorcerer? Because it sounds like it's exactly what you're looking for.

True, and annoyingly so. I'm not permitted to use the four core full-casters. Otherwise, I'd be on Sorcerer in a heartbeat.

And the character is a neutral good half-celestial living in the Upper Planes, so undead is not so great an option.

Yes, I know it screams divine casting, but it's not gonna fly.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Warmage works if you take Rainbow Servant (CD), since you'd eventually be able to spontaneously cast the entire Cleric spell list. Get the feat Versatile Spellcaster (RotD) and you'll qualify at Warmage 4 (by both RAW and RAI). If you don't like the feel of it, reflavor it to for something other than couatls. Someone I play with just loved his Phoenix Servant character, using the Good, Fire, and Renewal domains in place of Good, Air, and Law. It's probably one of the easiest prestige classes to reflavor to better suit a particular character.

Wilder would be another option if you're able to use Psionics.

[Thurbane]

True, and annoyingly so. I'm not permitted to use the four core full-casters. Otherwise, I'd be on Sorcerer in a heartbeat.

Battle Sorcerer might be what you're looking for then, if the DM considers it different enough to the core Sorcerer to be eligible...

[Eldariel]

Well, not a caster per ce, but it sounds like Wilder would work out fine for you. Not the most powerful class ever, but Psionics are a solid system open to accomplish all sorts of goals.

[Jack_Simth]

Warmage works if you take Rainbow Servant (CD), since you'd eventually be able to spontaneously cast the entire Cleric spell list. Get the feat Versatile Spellcaster (RotD) and you'll qualify at Warmage 4 (by both RAW and RAI). If you don't like the feel of it, reflavor it to for something other than couatls. Someone I play with just loved his Phoenix Servant character, using the Good, Fire, and Renewal domains in place of Good, Air, and Law. It's probably one of the easiest prestige classes to reflavor to better suit a particular character.

That's... umm... yikes. Odd ruling - for PrC's with low feat requirements, who's skill requirements don't force it, means the Sorcerer can occasionally get in earlier than the Wizard... that's a bit of an about-face. Hmm.

Wilder would be another option if you're able to use Psionics.

Yeah, it would be.

[afroakuma]

Psionics would be nice, but inadmissable per DM fiat. I'm restricted to arcane or divine, and I'm not a fan of divine.

[Thurbane]

...another option might be Bard/Sublime Chord - not exactly "full casting", but pretty close.

[afroakuma]

Close, yeah, but it's pretty limp on the latter end.

Still, that's definitely the closest I've seen so far.

[Zaq]

Beguiler is technically INT, but follows the same pattern as the Warmage and the Dread Necromancer. A lenient GM might allow you to swap the primary stat from INT to CHA (I'd actually view that as a step down for a straight-class Beguiler, because they have a really great skill list). Of course, your GM sounds pretty rigid, so that's probably not an option, but you might bring it up.

The Dragonfire Adept is an invocation-user like the Warlock, with an at-will breath weapon instead of an at-will lazor pew pew (sorry, "eldritch blast"). Charisma determines the saves for their invocations, and Constitution determines the saves for their breath weapon.

The Spirit Shaman has been mentioned, but it's divine. I'd argue that it feels less divine than a cleric or favored soul, but if you're set against divine on principle, that's a no go.

The Shugenja, also divine, doesn't get a lot of love, mainly because they also don't get a lot of love from WotC, but they have a unique spell list that includes cleric, druid, and sorcerer spells, so you can focus on some of the traditionally arcane spells if you choose. They're kind of underpowered compared to sorcerers, but they still do get full 9th-level casting.

[Innis Cabal]

The Shugenja, also divine, doesn't get a lot of love, mainly because they also don't get a lot of love from WotC, but they have a unique spell list that includes cleric, druid, and sorcerer spells, so you can focus on some of the traditionally arcane spells if you choose. They're kind of underpowered compared to sorcerers, but they still do get full 9th-level casting.

This. They are a little underpowered but they are a strong contender for what you want. Sure they are "divine" but they don't feel like a divine casting class. Heck they even have spell failure like a regular caster.

[Glyphic]

Perhaps you'd be interested in playing a Binder, from the Tome of magic?

They're really pretty nifty.

[afroakuma]

A lenient GM might allow you to swap the primary stat from INT to CHA (I'd actually view that as a step down for a straight-class Beguiler, because they have a really great skill list). Of course, your GM sounds pretty rigid, so that's probably not an option, but you might bring it up.

Extremely so, I fear. I've maxed out my admittedly liberal concessions already, and that one will certainly be forbidden.

As for shugenja, underpowered and Oriental-flavored... it won't fly, sadly.

[Zaq]

As for shugenja, underpowered and Oriental-flavored... it won't fly, sadly.

The only thing "oriental" (gods, but I hate that word) about shugenja is the name. Call them "elementalists," and the ofuda (which is just typical clumsy Japanese non-translation... お札, if GitP can display kanji, is just "charm" or "talisman") something like "prayer scrolls" or "spell texts" or something. Done. There's nothing inherently "oriental" about them. The "oriental" class distinctions have always pissed me off... the word doesn't actually mean anything to begin with (I could rant about this for a while), and it's all just BS "exoticism." The worst part, of course, is when they either don't bother to translate a word or when they translate it really clumsily... but I'm getting off-topic.

But yeah, there's nothing inherently "oriental" about Shugenja. The mage with a strong tie to the elements has a strong presence in European fantasy (and modern American fantasy) as well, and there's no reason to tie it to some BS "exotic" land. Just rename it and you're done.

As for it being underpowered... yeah, that's true, simply because their spell list has been expanded exactly once, in Complete Champion. We all know that more spells means more options and more options means more power, and they haven't been given enough attention to be on par with a proper cleric or sorcerer. They still do have a decent (if not fantastic) selection of spells, somewhere around that of a PHB-only sorcerer (maybe a little less). If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you, but given the criteria you've presented us, I think it's as close as you're going to get without going Bard -> Sublime Chord (which is, let's face it, basically just a sorcerer with a late start).

[afroakuma]

*shrug* It's no different than "Occidental," just sees more currency.

And the five-elements thing marks them out.

Anyways, does anyone have any other suggestions? If I had to go divine, what would you recommend?

(I really don't want to, as I've already been warned I'll need a miraculous justification to keep my divine casting later in the campaign. He's been pretty fair in that respect.)

[Eldariel]

Just go Bard/Sublime Chord then. He'll be behind a Sorcerer in casting level levels 6, 8, 9 & 10, and always has less slots, but otherwise matches Sorc fine and has solid auxillary abilities to go with the casting (like Metamagic Song).

[afroakuma]

And less spells known, too...

Cagey DM.

*sigh* What about arcane casters without full casting? Are there any with a fair spell selection apart from bards?

[The Rose Dragon]

I have an alternate question: Why Charisma based?