[DnD 3.5] Why is Chain Spell so powerful?!

[kyoten]

I've noticed that a lot of people here think highly of Chain Spell. Why? What makes Chain Spell so loved/powerful?

[Eloel]

It's powerful because it lets spells like Greater Magic Weapon to effect a lot of targets at once.

[Zaq]

For one spell slot (and, as is sometimes appropriate, one action) you get the effects of a whole lot of spell slots and/or actions. It's incredibly efficient.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It allows you to affect multiple targets with a single spell, which conserves the most vital resource any character has: actions.

Consider, if you will, the value of casting Death Ward on your entire party at the same time. If you are facing a bunch of death effects, wouldn't you want to protect the whole party rather than one individual?

[lsfreak]

GMW or Nerveskitter on the entire party. Use Dispel Magic on every enemy in the area, but you're able to do a targeted dispel instead of only effecting one spell per enemy. Dominate Person the entire enemy side. Strictly by RAW, you can mass Raise Dead/True Resurrection without any of the annoyance of racking up tens of thousands of gold.

[Keld Denar]

The trick is to not use it with spells that do hp damage or allow saves. Probably the best use of it is Dispel Magic. With a decent CL, you can targeted dispel every foe you face AND some of their magic items, or you can totally strip 1-2 foes of all magical items for 1d4 rounds which allows you to followup with a killer spell while their protections are down.

Its also great for buffing. The afore mentioned Greater Magic Weapon is a notable target, allowing you to enchant all your party's weapons, backup weapons, and a pile of weapons you like to throw around with Telekinesis. I also like to use it with Nerveskitter to pass out a +5 init bonus to my whole team. Going first means winning first, share the wealth.

Its debatable whether or not you can chain a Ray spell, but if you can, a Chained Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement is about the most effective mass-debuff you can cast against a group of melee mooks. Silence is also decent to Chain, as long as you arn't targeting people. You can use it to blanket an area with silence to keep enemies from casting while you prepare a bunch of Silent MM spells yourself.

It has a lot of utility, but its certainly not the best metamagic out there. I think Empower Spell, Split Ray, and certainly Quicken Spell are WAY better. That said, a Lesser MM Rod of Chaining is incredibly useful!

[Eldariel]

Targeted dispel on all of a person's gear (and the dude himself of course); repeat for as many targets as you have rebounds for. Basically, it does mean stuff like damage and SoDs grow weaker for every additional target, which means it's superb for everything else.

[Person_Man]

The biggest advantage in any mechanically complex game is usually (though not always) an action advantage. If you can essentially take 2 turns for every 1 turn your enemy makes, you'll probably win.

One of the most powerful and overlooked PrC is the War Weaver (Heroes of Battle) who can essentially do this for any 5th level or lower spell. For example, you cast Cure Moderate Wounds on yourself, and it effects everyone in your party.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The biggest advantage in any mechanically complex game is usually (though not always) an action advantage. If you can essentially take 2 turns for every 1 turn your enemy makes, you'll probably win.

One of the most powerful and overlooked PrC is the War Weaver (Heroes of Battle) who can essentially do this for any 5th level or lower spell. For example, you cast Cure Moderate Wounds on yourself, and it effects everyone in your party.

Close.

First off, it is 4th level and lower spells (you don't get it at 1st level, and it is a five level class). Second, it is arcane only, so no mass cure moderate wounds.

Third, it can only have spells that affect a person, not their equipment. Thus GMW and MV both cannot be cast through the Weave.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'm a big fan of using Destruction or Finger of Death with Chain Spell. The DC isn't lowered due to the damage secondary effect and the wording of Chain Spell.

[Eldariel]

First off, it is 4th level and lower spells (you don't get it at 1st level, and it is a five level class). Second, it is arcane only, so no mass cure moderate wounds.

Except with Bard. Actually, Bard/Sublime Chord/Warweaver makes for an awesome mass buffer.

[Heliomance]

Close.

First off, it is 4th level and lower spells (you don't get it at 1st level, and it is a five level class). Second, it is arcane only, so no mass cure moderate wounds.

Not so. It only advances arcane spellcasting, true, but there is no such distiction in the wording of the Eldritch Tapestry. Mystic Theurge lets you channel divine spells through it.

Also, you're thinking of the Quiescent Weaving that you don't get at 1st level. You can store one spell in the tapestry for later use for every class level after 1st. The highest level spell you can cast through the tapestry is equal to your class level - so, 5th level spells.

[Theodoriph]

Close.

First off, it is 4th level and lower spells (you don't get it at 1st level, and it is a five level class). Second, it is arcane only, so no mass cure moderate wounds.

Third, it can only have spells that affect a person, not their equipment. Thus GMW and MV both cannot be cast through the Weave.

It's 5th level. And you aren't restricted to arcane spells.


Edit: You can actually abuse the bloodline rules. If you take an intermediate bloodline...then as per bloodline rules you "Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels"...and then you can throw up to level 7 spells in your weave. It's a pity 6th and 7th level spells don't contain too many options for a war weaver...making it rather not worth it.

[Epinephrine]

Re: Mystic Theurge.

While it doesn't specify that the eldritch tapestry can only be used for arcane spells, many people rule that to be the case (including our group), based on a few factors:

a) It's a class for arcanists, as is evidenced by the entry requirements (knowledge: arcana, arcane casting) and the fact that it specifically only advances arcane spellcasting

b) Flavour text: "By weaving together strands of pure arcane power..."

c) The caution about adapting it to allow divine spells.

"One potential adaptation deserves a caution. The war
weaver isn’t balanced if you simply replace the arcane
magic requirement with a divine magic requirement.
Divine spellcasting war weavers can cast cure spells too
efficiently for the class to be balanced with respect to
clerics who don’t partake in the prestige class and other
divine healers."

So, we have the fact that the class is obviously designed for arcane casters, the flavour text which describes the eldritch tapestry as being arcane, and a caution about allowing divine casting-type war weavers. Might not be RAW, but it's certainly a possible interpretation that divine spells simply cannot be cast through it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Oh no, the least efficient use of a divine spellcaster's actions in combat can become almost efficient enough to actually use in combat! Spending actions during combat to heal is only a good idea if someone is on the verge of dying, and this almost never includes the entire party, so even with War Weaver it will be a waste of actions.

For example, if someone were to make a Cleric 5/ War Weaver 4 with the Healing domain, Augment Healing, Divine Spell Power, and got a check to get +4 caster level with Divine Spell Power, he could cast a Cure Critical Wounds to heal the party for 4d8+22 through Eldritch Tapestry, average 40 points, but when would he need to be doing that? If they were fighting a CR 10 Juvenile Red Dragon with Recover Breath twice, it could be breathing fire on them on average three times every four rounds for 8d10 each time, for an average of 44 damage per use or 33 damage per round. At that rate he can certainly heal through the dragon's damage, but how long can he keep it up? The party would have been much better off with a Protection from Energy cast through the tapestry, which an Arcane caster can do, or even a Fly spell cast on everyone, an arcane spell. There are much better and much more efficient ways of healing an entire party to full HP between encounters than making the divine caster use up all of his spells, so Eldritch Tapestry is moot with regards to that.

Apart from healing spells, divine casters don't get many spells different from arcane spellcasters. Buffs like Death Ward and Freedom of Movement are probably the only ones that would come up as abusive, and someone could easily make a Wizard with Arcane Disciple and a Periapt of the Sullen Sea (MIC) to get access to those spells.

A character could take Versatile Spellcaster (RotD) and go Beguiler or Warmage or Dread Necromancer 4/ War Weaver 5/ Rainbow/Phoenix/Barghest Servant 10 and spontaneously cast the entire Cleric spell list with Eldritch Tapestry. Even a Mystic Theurge/ War Weaver could take the feat Southern Magician and cast his Divine spells as Arcane spells to get around any arbitrary houserules regarding Eldritch Tapestry. The difference between letting a character use Eldritch Tapestry on his Divine spells is the whole party getting Death Ward versus just that spellcaster putting Death Ward on himself. It helps the entire party, thus making the rest of the party stronger, rather than limiting the buffs to just the caster and making that one character so strong that the rest of the players feel like sidekicks. There is absolutely nothing wrong with allowing a player to make this sort of character.

[Sinfire Titan]

Finger of Death, Suppress Magic (MoI), Dominate Person, take your pick. The feat turns it from single target "Save or Die" to "Rock Falls, Enemies Die".

[nightwyrm]

One question: what the heck happens when someone decides to chain a magic jar....

[Fax Celestis]

One question: what the heck happens when someone decides to chain a magic jar....

You play musical bodies. Last soul into a body spends an eternity trapped in a gem.

[monty]

You play musical bodies. Last soul into a body spends an eternity trapped in a gem.

High level wizards play for all the marbles.

[Aquillion]

Oh no, the least efficient use of a divine spellcaster's actions in combat can become almost efficient enough to actually use in combat!

The problem is not even in combat, it's outside combat. Suddenly, in a five-person party, every single healing spell you cast counts for five times as much. That's a rather big advantage for a relatively simple PRC.