4e- Vestige Pact or The Binder

[Asbestos]

Article found here. Vestiges seem less robust than the old binder of course, but its an interesting way of implementing it.

[RTGoodman]

I'm not sure whether I like it or not. I mean, it's probably not bad or anything, it's just not what I had in mind (and nothing close to the homebrewed Vestige Binding stuff I did a while back). I guess I'll have to wait to see more, but for now I'll give it a resounding "eh."

[Kurald Galain]

I'll give it a resounding "eh."

Likewise.

Lots of cross-referencing here to little gain; it lacks the elegant simplicity of (most of) the rest of 4E.

[JackMage666]

Well, I'll need to see more than this to be a proper judge (and believe me, I will!), but at a glance, might be interesting. What I do love about it, right off the bat, is that it seems very Constitution based, while so far the other Pacts have been mostly Charisma based - The main Con based Warlock right now is the Infernal Pact, but I personally can't stand the fluff of it (it's just overplayed.)

[Artanis]

It'll be interesting to see how the balance works out. The two dailies they show look like they've got less raw power than the PHB ones of that level, but having so damned many choices of vestiges adds a lot of versatility.

[Oracle_Hunter]

It'll be interesting to see how the balance works out. The two dailies they show look like they've got less raw power than the PHB ones of that level, but having so damned many choices of vestiges adds a lot of versatility.

It is very much like the Barbarian Rage mechanic - pop a Daily to get a new rule. Being able to swap your Pact Boon around is tremendously useful, particularly once you have your full complement of Dailies available.

I'm intrigued.

[MammonAzrael]

I'm disappointed that the Binder is being rolled into the Warlock instead of getting its own class, but I can see the logic. These don't have quite the same feel, but I think it could be a terrific way to make the warlock stand out. bargaining with all sorts of strange powers and pseudo-deities could make for an awesome character. I really hope WotC does the concept justice.

Also, I love the fact that you can move the zone created by Ugar around as a free action.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Also, I love the fact that you can move the zone created by Ugar around as a free action.

Note that that is actually the Ugar Pact Boon effect. You only get that move when someone you Cursed dies.

Also: I didn't notice last night, but the Dailies also convert your Vestige At-Will - neat!

It seems like WotC started out with simple class mechanics, and each splatbook class has been increasingly difficult. The Vestige Pact involves a lot more memory use than any other class IMHO.

[Asbestos]

It seems like WotC started out with simple class mechanics, and each splatbook class has been increasingly difficult. The Vestige Pact involves a lot more memory use than any other class IMHO.

It seems like this only requires slightly more memory than playing a barbarian.

"Okay, I'm raging, I have to add in those bonuses and effects and my at-wills do something different now."

"Okay, I've bound Ugar, my at-will and pact boon are different now."

[Artanis]

I agree that rages probably require more memory. A vestige pact Warlock can just make extra power cards for the at-will, meaning he only really has to remember the pact boon (which would be pretty easy for some of them, like Ugar's). Rages are something that you can't really do that for.

[Yakk]

In general, once you activate a Vestige, you should keep the power card in front of you.

[Dragonmuncher]

I guess it's ok, but "meh" was my reaction as well. 3.5 Binders were immensely flavorful. This is just another minor variant on what all classes in 4e are.

I'll admit that 3.5 had problems, but in retrospect I did like the variety of systems. Vancian magic, Psionics, Incarnum, Truenaming, Binding, Warlocks and their invocations, Duskblades (which, though they used Vancian, was different at the time because it blew us away by being a really good gish base class!), Spellthieves, Tome of Battle, prestige classes like the Chameleon...


Sorry about that, Nostalgia got me for a second.

[Kyeudo]

I don't see where the Pact Boon abilities for the two starting vestiges are.

[Draz74]

I don't see where the Pact Boon abilities for the two starting vestiges are.

I think they left them out of the preview. You know, to taunt you into actually buying Arcane Power.

[Kyeudo]

I think they left them out of the preview. You know, to taunt you into actually buying Arcane Power.

They included the Pact Boons granted by the more powerful vestiges and nothing can stop homebrewers once they have the core of an idea. They may as well have provided the rest of the basics.