3.5 Regenerating XP for crafters, etc.

[Ent]

I'm looking for some feedback on this idea...

I've normally awarded fairly straightforward XP, with RP and quest bonuses, keeping PCs at varied XP if it was, started new players or characters a little behind the party. I've always been moving towards balance since I started (in the 90's with 3.0), using point-buy exclusively now and other houserules to keep players from feeling "weaker" then the others.

In the current campaign I run, I'm keeping PCs XP the same. The only problem that comes to mind is item crafters (the Wizard is currently the only one with an item creation feat, that being Scribe Scroll). At first I was just going to let him slip behind in XP, but I did not like that idea when was looking down along the line as I plan to run this game for awhile; I'm pretty sure the Wizard at very least will be interested in crafting and I want to encourage that.

The idea of letting XP spent towards crafting return to the PC game to me at that point. I want to come up with some sort of slow regeneration of the total to represent effort and time, and it will also prevent them from trying to craft all the time (they are adventurers, after all). Eventually they would be caught up with the rest of the party, and since items are just as often for the OTHER PCs, I thought this might have some merit. It also makes me consider starting new players and characters (from players whose last character died) a little behind like the DMG suggests, but catching them up completely in time (as opposed to always being lower).

I'm still working on something like a percentage to catch them up, maybe 10-50% each game. Is this an original idea? Has anyone heard of this from another system I can take a look at, or have you run something similar?

[tyckspoon]

The rules themselves already provide for a catch-up mechanism, provided you use them; the XP calculation provides more xp to lower-leveled characters for taking on higher CR challenges. If you don't want to bother going through the actual calculations all the time, you can get reasonably close by just throwing the lower-level party members a couple hundred extra XP every time you give out XP.

[Fixer]

I believe there are crafting points rules in the Unearthed Arcana.

[Ent]

The rules themselves already provide for a catch-up mechanism, provided you use them; the XP calculation provides more xp to lower-leveled characters for taking on higher CR challenges. If you don't want to bother going through the actual calculations all the time, you can get reasonably close by just throwing the lower-level party members a couple hundred extra XP every time you give out XP.

Yes, but they can never catch up completely the way the system works. My experience (pun!) has been that a PC catches up within 3-4 levels but is always behind a few hundred or thousand XP, leading to sessions where most players level, but some do not. I was trying to get away from that, as the difference is noticeable even more at low levels.

Thanks Fixer, I'll check it.

[Kylarra]

Perhaps you could have an option for other PCs to "donate" some XP when the wizard needs to craft items. That way they all have a share of the burden when he's doing things for the whole party's benefit.

What I mean is that some of the XP costs for crafting could be paid by other players.

[Greg]

This handy gadget calculates XP totals for you.

[tyckspoon]

Also, specifically as regards crafting, you could try giving people something like the Artificer's craft reserve ('bonus' xp that can only be applied for crafts) or the Retain Essence ability that lets them break down a magic item to extract the XP it was made with and reuse it for other crafting.

[Zherog]

Perhaps you could have an option for other PCs to "donate" some XP when the wizard needs to craft items. That way they all have a share of the burden when he's doing things for the whole party's benefit.

What I mean is that some of the XP costs for crafting could be paid by other players.

I use craft points as well as this suggestion. I actually go a bit further than this - I allow any willing creature to pay the XP cost to create an item, but that creature must be present for the entire crafting process. For example, if the party fighter is donating 50 XP (I made up a number) to craft a new belt of giant strength +4, he needs to be part of the process for the entire 16 days it takes to make the item.

There's no doubt this results in my group having exactly the right gear they need, most of the time. The party wizard currently has Scribe Scroll, Craft Wand, and Craft Wondrous Item. As DM, I still have some control over item crafting.

I still control how much cash they actually have, so I can control that aspect of item creation.

I also control how much downtime they have. That doesn't help with craft points, but does help with "normal" casting. In fact, I implemented craft points for this campaign because I anticipate they'll have less free time as their characters level. Events will soon unfold that will take them on a rather harried pace to save the world. Using Craft Points allowed the wizard to continue making magic items, an aspect she was very interested in including in her character.

[newbDM]

Also, specifically as regards crafting, you could try giving people something like the Artificer's craft reserve ('bonus' xp that can only be applied for crafts) or the Retain Essence ability that lets them break down a magic item to extract the XP it was made with and reuse it for other crafting.

That is exactly what I thought of when I read this thread's title.

Personally, I would suggest giving PCs who take the crafting feats a small amount of Craft Reserve XP each level similar to the artificier class, but a much smaller amount unless you want to make the artificer class completely obsolete.

[RandomFellow]

You can always make it a purely gold-based transaction and no XP.

(e.g. You pay 75% of the base item's price in order to produce it, but no XP)

Since you control the flow of gold, it isn't hard to give them less than normal to keep the wealth level acceptable.

Just realize, with enough crafting feats, the group will only need 85% or so of the usual WBL to get the same result.

[Zaq]

I generally choose to ignore the XP cost of crafting. In my mind, the opportunity cost of taking the crafting feat, as well as the downtime involved, is enough of a cost as long as the players don't abuse it. Of course, if they start preparing scores of scrolls or mass-producing wondrous items, then you need to have a talk with them about being reasonable and/or seriously cut down their available downtime, but generally I don't find that to be necessary. Just make sure that they know that by spending a couple weeks in downtime between every adventure, the situation is going to change, usually for the worse. How this change happens depends, of course, upon the campaign, but just think about what could happen in the space of a few weeks. Maybe some new monsters move in, maybe some traps get upgraded, maybe someone else finds what the PCs are looking for, whatever. Let them know that actions, or in this case inactions, have consequences, then let them make their own decisions.

This ignores the existence of the Artificer, since I've never had a group with one. Obviously, this advice would be less helpful with an Artificer running around.

[Chronos]

Yes, but they can never catch up completely the way the system works.

Actually, I've heard a few stories of item-crafting wizard not only catching up with the rest, but surpassing them, if they got a big enough chunk of XP at once.

And at worst, it's extremely difficult for one party member to fall more than a single level behind the rest, due to the combination of the increased XP for lower-level characters and the nonlinear XP table. Given that casters are more powerful than non-casters to begin with, having all of your casters down by a level might not be so bad anyway.

[Shpadoinkle]

The way the XP system as written works fine to keep this from becoming an issue. They didn't just throw the XP requirement for crafting items in the day before the books went to print as a last second "fix," they designed them both to work in tandem from the start. There's zero problems if you use the XP system as written.

[kentma57]

Give him bonus xp(no more than he spent making the item) based on how usefull it turns out to be for the party. Basicly reward him for thinking things through and helping his team.