[3.5] Pulling some humor out of the "chaotic" side of the abyss?

[newbDM]

As someone who loves fun and humor in my games both as a DM and a player, I was pondering if you can take a more light-hearted view of the abyss based on it's "chaotic" and infinite aspects. At least part of the time.

It just seems to gritty and horror oriented.


While pondering this issue the first scene which came to my mind was a group of PCs who had just finished getting attacked by a random group of demons (emphasis on the word random), and now all wounded as they make their way through this brimstone and lava filled hell, then as they turn a corner the suddenly come upon what seems to be a building designed too look like various confectionery treats with an extra large door. When/If they enter, after getting hit with a refreshing gust of air conditioned air they are shocked to see what can be nothing else but a balor dressed in an apron and chef's hat standing behind a very large bakery counter. While momentarily taking his attention away from clubbing some manes inside of a big pie tin, he looks over at the PCs, and says in a deep infernal voice "Welcome to my bakery shop. How may I help you!". The balor then proceeds to catch any manes which might have escaped from the pan, and feed the most likely hungry travelers.

I guess I would improv explain it has the balor is "retired", or that this is his part time/hobby job if the PCs dared to ask, but that is besides the point I guess.


Your thoughts on this subject?

[kyoten]

Hilarious! You should consider putting in a hot springs resort also.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

While it is a funny idea, there's something you seem to be ignoring.

Demons aren't Chaotic Evil by choice. They literally ARE the Chaotic Evil alignment. They are embodiments of destruction and malice, and they never stop thinking of ways to bring all of creation down into ruin. They hate everything and everyone, including each other, and are always spoiling for a fight. And they never, EVER retire.

It's literally impossible for a demon to change it's alignment, because it is basically an alignment given physical form. They will not help travellers. They will try to torture and kill them. They will not bake pies out of manes. They will rip the entrails out of the manes stomachs and savor their delicious screams of pain before anally raping them and then draining them of blood.

The Abyss is not a funny place. It is not a nice place. No one in their right mind would even THINK about going there because the place is so dangerous.

It seems so gritty and horror oriented because that is the entire point. The Lower Planes are meant to be horrifying threats to all people, that the PCs are meant to fight against with every fiber of their being. If a balor did like baking he'd probably be more inclined to throw the PCs in the oven!

[TheCountAlucard]

...and are always spoiling for a fight.

Not succubi.

And they never, EVER retire.

Really? Can you REALLY say that about EVERY demon in an INFINITE multitude of demon-filled layers? Maybe in YOUR campaign setting, but it's not a thing fixed in stone.

It's literally impossible for a demon to change it's alignment, because it is basically an alignment given physical form.

What about that one that became a paladin?

They will not help travellers.

What if it has an ulterior motive? Demons can behave intelligently, and might even attempt to get an adventurer on its side, so as to get its aid against another demon.

They will not bake pies out of manes.

Are you certain? Have you been watching them to make sure? They might try and do it when your back is turned.

The Abyss is not a funny place.

I find I must disagree. There's a lot of comedic potential in the Abyss.

It is not a nice place.

That much is true.

Anyway, OP, the trick to making the Abyss humorous is to not go overboard with it. It's still a dark and scary setting, and "totally insane" does not necessarily mean "balor opens a bakery amongst a fiery inferno," although by the business rules in DMG II, that actually just might work.

[Atamasama]

I think it's not a bad idea to insert some sick-minded levity into the Abyss. And I don't think it's at all inappropriate to try to have humorous situations in such a dangerous place. However the one thing I do agree with from Zousha is that it's not a nice place, and no creature native to that place will be nice, their alignments don't deviate. I'd say to go with what you're planning, but have it all be a ruse to take the characters off-guard to do them in later. If you do it right you'll take the players off-guard also!

"The frogurt is also cursed!"

[hamishspence]

Expedition to the Demonweb Pits Cambions. Native to the abyss, 10% are Neutral or Good.

Munchkin had little humor reference: "Demobozo, Demon Prince of Scary Clowns"

(I've heard of Kringus, Demon prince of Christmas trees, as well)

a little humour can work, done right.

[Agrippa]

When I think about Chaotic Evil I think less about mindless destruction and much more about amoral anarchism, a depraved sense of individualism and often times sadistic hedonism. If you want humor, dead baby jokes are the way to go. "Why did the dead baby cross the road? Because it was stapled to the chicken." If you want to know what demons would find funny, think the Joker's or Randal Flagg's brand of humor.

[golentan]

Angry, kneejerk response by Zousha aside, I think this is a BRILLIANT idea. I would play up the darker aspect WHILE having fun; have the menu include humanoid meat pies, and soul infused chocolates. List the prices on the menu in number of firstborn (yes, I mean EXACTLY that), and offer a "first one's free" policy. But feel free to go over the top. Evil can be fun too, take a look at the (ig)noble Xykon, or Richard from LFG. Have style, and panache. Be cheerful and happy and have no self doubts, even as you light people on fire to watch them runaround. That's how I'd do it.

[ondonaflash]

Well since you mentioned Demons doing the unexpected, I thought I'd mention someone from the Planescape campaign setting. There's a shop called the Friendly Fiend, which has a character who is just that. I forget the exact specifics, but there is a Demon in Sigil who owns a store, greats every customer with a cheerful and friendly smile, offers quality goods and services, and really freaks everyone the **** out. They don't know if its part of a greater plan, or if he was a risen fiend. (There are good fiends, but they probably aren't welcome in their respective planes anymore) But this sounds like a similar idea. Just remember while its okay to add a little humor you should be careful not to take the edge off of the lower planes, they aren't supposed to be a walk in the park.

[Xuincherguixe]

I would say, "What would Black Mage do?"

Really, this is probably my thread since I like my humor like I like my Metal. Pitch Black.

In the example above, the Pie should say (yes the pie), "Yes! Eat me! Ooo I want inside you. I'm delicious and I need you to eat me! Oh yes! Devour me whole!"

At which point the Balor would say, "Mental note. More sugar next time, a few more minutes in the oven."

There could be a fancy dinner party where a few of the demons start cutting up screaming babies...

They might encounter a difficult obstacle, at which point a demon offers to give you a hand, hacking one off before they say anything and bleeding all over the place.

There could be a Succubus, with a bunch of spears jabbed in her, who asks for some help. When they pull out the spears she could complain, "No, if you impaled me again I would have had a full set and I could brag to the mistress. I guess I should have been more specific."

Dark and disturbing is your friend.

[Kris Strife]

I approve of the posters origional idea. And when do you plan to run this campaign and will it be PbP?

[Xefas]

My lower planes are a lot like Zousha's lower planes, so that would kind of irk me as well. There are plenty of other planes to deface with humor. Just one step up is Pandemonium, the Chaotic Evil/Chaotic Neutral plane, and just above that is Limbo, the Chaotic Neutral plane.

Limbo is a great example. I made mine like 4chan's /b/ board. It's quite hilarious. All the Slaadi give their names as "Anonymous", and yell slightly D&Dised memes at passersby.

[Tsotha-lanti]

The Abyss is not a funny place. It is not a nice place. No one in their right mind would even THINK about going there because the place is so dangerous.

Anyone who ever played Planescape knows that this is painfully wrong. The entire Planes is an absurd, ridiculous place.

[Starscream]

Limbo is a great example. I made mine like 4chan's /b/ board. It's quite hilarious. All the Slaadi give their names as "Anonymous", and yell slightly D&Dised memes at passersby.

Okay, now you're scaring me.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Not succubi.

Not necessarily. What if they like BDSM and get a little carried away? Mortals don't have the same tolerance for pain that demons do, so the kind of pain a succubus'd find kinky would probably bring the average mortal close to death.

Really? Can you REALLY say that about EVERY demon in an INFINITE multitude of demon-filled layers? Maybe in YOUR campaign setting, but it's not a thing fixed in stone.

One thing that is fixed about the Abyss is that EVERY single layer of it is infused with the pure essence of the Chaotic Evil alignment. We're talking about a cosmic force of anarchy and malice that suffuses everything and everyone there. If a demon were good, something would be very, very wrong with them.

What about that one that became a paladin?

...Wait, what?!

What if it has an ulterior motive? Demons can behave intelligently, and might even attempt to get an adventurer on its side, so as to get its aid against another demon.

You aren't mistaken on that account, but I've only played paladins, whose response to any demon they encountered was "DIE!"

Are you certain? Have you been watching them to make sure? They might try and do it when your back is turned.

A balor likely has better things it can do with its time than make pies.

I find I must disagree. There's a lot of comedic potential in the Abyss.

I envision the Abyss's zeitgeist to be something like the Silent Hill games. It's disturbing to look at, there's not a shred of good, hope or decency to be found anywhere and most importantly, EVERYTHING IS OUT TO KILL YOU IN THE MOST HORRIFICALY POSSIBLE WAYS.

That much is true.

Finally something we agree on.

Anyway, OP, the trick to making the Abyss humorous is to not go overboard with it. It's still a dark and scary setting, and "totally insane" does not necessarily mean "balor opens a bakery amongst a fiery inferno," although by the business rules in DMG II, that actually just might work.

I still maintain that the Abyss is supposed to be a gross, horrific place. If you insert humorous elements into it, you immediately deflate that image and it ceases to be scary. The Abyss needs to be scary or the players are going to get careless, and then they will be eviscerated.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Anyone who ever played Planescape knows that this is painfully wrong. The entire Planes is an absurd, ridiculous place.

I never played Planescape. I was too young.

[mikej]

There some humor about the Abyss, one of our most beloved ( or despised arch-nemesis in game ) was a Balor named Tom.

[JeenLeen]

One thing that is fixed about the Abyss is that EVERY single layer of it is infused with the pure essence of the Chaotic Evil alignment. We're talking about a cosmic force of anarchy and malice that suffuses everything and everyone there. If a demon were good, something would be very, very wrong with them.

According to the MM, "always chaotic evil" can mean that something about them makes them innately chaotic evil, but there is the potential for change. Thus, a demon, although innately chaotic evil, could become lawful good. Just incredibly rare.

[Xenogears]

If I remember correctly in one D&D book I read it listed "Always X Aligment" as meaning that there can be an extraordinary individual that isnt but 99.99% are. This does however mean that 1 out of every about 10000 "always chaotic evil" are in fact NOT chaotic evil. Sure its probably less likely that they are good aligned rather than say nuetral evil or chaotic nuetral but considering that there are literally limitless layers of the Abyss (and therefore potentially limitless demons) it makes some amount of sense to say that scattered throughout the Abyss are a handful of good demons and perhaps even a single Lawful Good demon.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I mean, if I had my party encounter a bunch of incubi singing this, I think my party'd be too busy laughing to notice that they're about to be raped.

[hamishspence]

Given the way D&D fiction tends to portray demons- they may be evil, but they aren't all the same- they vary in personality traits and attitudes- some layers of the abyss, like Gaping Maw, actually scare the more "urbane" demons, having ones with humourous traits isn't inconsistant.

Succubi who talk among each other like teenagers "She was like, and I was like..." "And pierced horns?? SO last millennium" "Have you any IDEA how hard it is to get ichor out of this outfit?!", etc might be kinda funny.

[Seffbasilisk]

Sounds awesome! A balor is strong enough to hold onto a small corner of hell, especially if it's not located near cities or thier equivilant. He could hold onto the bakery by baking for the super-powerful. Or, hell, he could just enjoy baking. Either way, I think it's fantastic.

[xPANCAKEx]

eating baked goods served by a balor... thats got to be suicidal at best?

[Xuincherguixe]

To be fair, so is adventuring to begin with. The party could just be going out of there way to prove how badass they are.

Also, a baking Balor has got to be one scary dude. How many other demons are going to look at the guy and go, "woah, that guy is a wuss. Let's kill him!" The fact he's still around probably means that he's (again) one scary dude.

[ghost_warlock]

To be fair, so is adventuring to begin with. The party could just be going out of there way to prove how badass they are.

Also, a baking Balor has got to be one scary dude. How many other demons are going to look at the guy and go, "woah, that guy is a wuss. Let's kill him!" The fact he's still around probably means that he's (again) one scary dude.

Well, yeah, he's got to stuff something in those pies, after all.

Personally, I love the idea. But that might be because, like Tsotha-lanti and Planescape, I see the planes as absurd & ridiculous.

Chaotic and evil doesn't have to mean mindless killing-machine. What better way to destroy all of creation than stuffing everything with pies until almost every living thing suffers from morbid obesity? As an added benefit, those too obese to get away get stuffed into pies fed to others.

Also, anyone else think of Thinner at the mention of evil and pies?

[Athaniar]

While I agree that the Abyss is supposed to be Extremely Evil and Grim and Not Funny, the good thing about homebrew is that if you don't want it to be that way, then it doesn't have to be that way. Also, the OP's idea is hilarious.

[newbDM]

Thank you for the advice so far guys. I have gotten a lot of suggestions and ideas so far.

Munchkin had little humor reference: "Demobozo, Demon Prince of Scary Clowns"

(I've heard of Kringus, Demon prince of Christmas trees, as well)

a little humour can work, done right.

Can you please tell me where I can find those references? Is the demon lord of clowns in the cards, or d20 books?

What about Kingus?

I have been looking for them since your post.

[Riffington]

Check out In Nomine, and its look at Hell. If you want a nuanced, interesting, and funny hell, it'll really help.

[Logalmier]

I think it's not a bad idea to insert some sick-minded levity into the Abyss. And I don't think it's at all inappropriate to try to have humorous situations in such a dangerous place. However the one thing I do agree with from Zousha is that it's not a nice place, and no creature native to that place will be nice, their alignments don't deviate. I'd say to go with what you're planning, but have it all be a ruse to take the characters off-guard to do them in later. If you do it right you'll take the players off-guard also!

"The frogurt is also cursed!"

No, no! Have the balor feed them chocolates, and when the players ask what flavor the chocolates were say "Crunchy frog!".

[SlyGuyMcFly]

How about a fair? Have a kissing booth with succubi (satisfaction guaranteed or you get your soul back!), a vendor selling hotdogs (100% puppy! Get them while they still squirm!) or a wack-a-mole game with disembodied heads that mock the player if he misses and insult them if they get a hit, all the while bickering with each other:

*Player tries to hit Head 1 and misses*
Head 1: Hahaha! You suck! Even I could get a better score than yours! And I don´t even have arms!
Head 2: Don´t make me laugh Lars, you couldn´t even score a Succubus!
*Head 3 pops up*
Head 3: But he´d still score YO MOMMA!
Head 2: WHAT DID YOU SAY!?
*Player hits Head 2 while he yelled at Head 3*
Head 2: OW! F*** YOU BASTARD! Wait till I get my hands on you!
Heads 1 and 3: AHAHAHAHAHA!
Head 1: What are you gonna do, bite him to death!?

Or something like that.

I mean, if I had my party encounter a bunch of incubi singing this, I think my party'd be too busy laughing to notice that they're about to be raped.

Now that is a hilarious suggestion


Edit: Oh, and you could introduce a Demon Prince of Really Bad Puns. So bad that he forces Will Saves on the players.