[3.5] Need help with basic Druid mechanics

[TheDon]

While I'm not new to D&D, I'm new to Druids. In an upcoming game, I'm planning to play a Vow of Poverty Druid and I need some help understanding the basic mechanics of Wild Shape so I figured that I would turn to the wisdom of the forum.

My first question is about the full attacks. Lets take the black bear as an example. At 5th level I get my Wild Shape, and from my understanding it should be possible as it is both medium and under 5HD. When making a full attack, do I get the full 2 claws 1 bite even thought I don't have multi attack, do I get a minus something because of that or do I need to wait until my own base attack grants me 3 attacks in order to take advantage of that.

My second question is concerning the bears base attack, do I use his, my own with his strenght or do I combine both?

And if I get to combine both, can I wild shape into an advanced version of said black bear in order to have a higher wild shape?

Thank you in advance, and if you have any other druid tips or other mechanics you've stumbled on, feel free to share :)

[weenie]

You always get exactly three attacks, but with a -5 to bite. You use the bear's STR and your BaB.

Another question of my own:

How well does a Druid work with Vow of Poverty? I know it's a weak feat, but I think a Druid might really benefit from it.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

When Wildshaped, you keep your HD, HP, BAB, feats, skills, spellcasting, base saves, mental stats, SLAs, SU attacks, and creature type.

You get your creatures EX attacks, natural weapons, physical stats, natural armor, and movement(plus any bonuses to move you have).

Keep in mind there are about 20 erratas for this, and it is one of the most complicated abilities in the game. I suggest writing up a new statblock for each form you want before the game starts. Also remember that you'll be Wildshaped all day. Drop your gear before changing, then have an ally put it back on you to save cash.

How well does a Druid work with Vow of Poverty? I know it's a weak feat, but I think a Druid might really benefit from it.

Better than anything else, but that's about the same as saying they're the least hurt by 2 Str and Dex. Yes they get around it, but they're still better off with actual items.

[Myrmex]

VoP for druids in actual games isn't that bad. It can be good if you are ever in a situation where you can't go dig through the DMG and pick out which items you want to buy. The abilities also work with wildshape, which means your DM won't be able to waffle about wearing a belt of giant str or gloves of dex in wildshape form. The biggest problem is not being able to spend your gp on stuff for your animal companion.

[Chronos]

More about creatures and full attacks: Every creature with natural weapons has one natural weapon type which is considered its primary natural weapon, and all other natural weapons are secondary. There's no general rule for which is which unless you know how that creature actually fights: Both cats and dogs, for instance, have two claws and a bite, but for cats, the claws are primary, while for dogs, the bite is primary.

When you make a single attack (if you only have a single standard action, or if you're taking an attack of opportunity or the like), you use your primary weapon (or one of your primary weapons, if you have more than one of them like claws), and use your full attack bonus. When you make a full attack with natural weapons, you make one attack with each of your weapons, with each attack from a primary weapon being at full attack bonus (and full strength bonus), while each attack from a secondary weapon is at attack bonus -5 (and half strength bonus to damage, like an off-hand weapon). If you have the Multiattack feat (which is not necessary), then all of your secondary attacks are at full -2, instead of full -5. If you only have a single natural weapon, then you only get one attack per round regardless, but you add 1.5 times your strength bonus to damage, like a two-handed weapon. In all cases, your BAB has no effect on the number of natural attacks you can make per round, just the number of natural weapons you have.

A handful of creatures (such as Lizardfolk) have a full-attack routine listed in their statblock which includes both a manufactured weapon and one or more natural weapons. Such creatures (and only such creatures) can combine both, and get the best of both worlds: You can make iterative attacks with your weapon (at full BAB, full -5, full -10, etc.), and also make one attack with each natural weapon (other than limbs holding the weapon) as a secondary attack at full attack bonus -5 (or -2, with the Multiattack feat).

[Myou]

VoP for druids in actual games isn't that bad. It can be good if you are ever in a situation where you can't go dig through the DMG and pick out which items you want to buy. The abilities also work with wildshape, which means your DM won't be able to waffle about wearing a belt of giant str or gloves of dex in wildshape form. The biggest problem is not being able to spend your gp on stuff for your animal companion.

Why not have him take it too? xD

[weenie]

Why not have him take it too? xD

Oh my god, this could actually be done!

[kamikasei]

Why not have him take it too? xD

We'll test this! Get your pet to take a vow of chastity instead of neutering him. Bask in the lack of complaints from neighbours with new litters.

[Kris Strife]

We'll test this! Get your pet to take a vow of chastity instead of neutering him. Bask in the lack of complaints from neighbours with new litters.

You do know Druid ACs are intelligent and actually can do this right?

and as someone brought up animals and sex in a druid thread:



Do wildshaped druids poop in the woods?

[The Rose Dragon]

Animals are Neutral. They cannot be Exalted. Therefore, they cannot use Vow of Poverty.

Unless Druid Animal Companions change alignment and temperament.

[Kris Strife]

Considering its an exalted Druid, I'd say the AC would be at least good. And dont animal companions count as magical beasts?

[The Rose Dragon]

Nothing in the Animal Companion description says your Animal Companion changes alignment.

Familiars count as Magical Beasts. I'm not sure about Animal Companions.

There was a PrC that gave a Unicorn as an Animal Companion, though. A Unicorn would most likely be considered Exalted.

[kamikasei]

You do know Druid ACs are intelligent and actually can do this right?

No, they're not. Familiars become magical beasts and get intelligence boosts, animal companions remain animals and max out at 2.

[Kris Strife]

Well, thats what awaken is for.

[Myou]

Oh my god, this could actually be done!

I command it! xD

And as Kris said, they just need to be awakened.

[Jack_Simth]

Better than anything else, but that's about the same as saying they're the least hurt by 2 Str and Dex. Yes they get around it, but they're still better off with actual items.

Better with actual items? In most circumstances, yes (there are, as always, some circumstances under which one normally sub-optimal option is the better one). Do note, though, that as Druids are on the high side of the power curve to begin with, being down a few points of stats isn't really going to hurt them overly much.

[kamikasei]

Well, thats what awaken is for.

"An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount."

[Myou]

"An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount."

Well darn, that's no fun. xP

[kamikasei]

Well darn, that's no fun. xP

Then my work here is done.

(Actually, you might be able to accomplish something with an Arcane Hierophant, since that gives you a combined AC/Familiar... But I forget the exact rules for that, don't have them to hand to look up, and it'd probably defeat the purpose of having a full VoP'd druid and companion anyway.)

[mikej]

Do wildshaped druids poop in the woods?

Yes, well at least my druid did.

Why choose Vow of Poverty over magical gear ?, aside from the role-play aspect of it, I'd rather have items when I play that class.

Regardless of the viewpoint of Vow of Poverty, I highly doubt any DM would allow that feat on the Druid's animal companion.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

"An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount."

There is a Celestial Companion feat, IIRC, in BoED. Not only does it give an Int, it automatically makes your pet Good. That at least allows you to go with an Exalted Badger.

[Myou]

There is a Celestial Companion feat, IIRC, in BoED. Not only does it give an Int, it automatically makes your pet Good. That at least allows you to go with an Exalted Badger.

Vow of Poverty Badger! Awesome! =D

[Tensu]

We don't need no stink'n badgers!

[TheDon]

Why choose Vow of Poverty over magical gear ?, aside from the role-play aspect of it, I'd rather have items when I play that class.

Mostly because like Myrmex said, I know my DM is going to have qualms about letting me use most magic items in wild shape. Also the group is going to be fairly small (2 players) so if one of them is constantly in animal form, there isn't much NPC interaction.

Because of different schedules, the group had to be split in half, so the DM is going to do a good VS evil game and pit us against each other without direct confrontation. Being one of the more creative and experianced players, the DM didn't want me in the evil group, thought it wouldn't be fair.

[Hawk7915]

Sorry for a hijack but I have a druid question that's been bugging our group and may be relevant to the OP.

Does a druid gain the bonus feats of the form he shapeshifts into? Obviously a druid that wildshapes into a Tiger does not gain Weapon Focus: Claw (does it? a druid getting double feats would be silly...), but does a druid who shapes into an Eagle gain Weapon Finesse? Does a wolf-form druid gain Track?

[Waspinator]

Honestly, this is part of why I like the Shapeshifter Druid from the 3.5 Player's Handbook II. It makes things a LOT simpler.

[Paul H]

Hi

Not sure about using the Book of Exalted Cheese, but have been playing around with a Druid concept.

Take a Riding Dog as your Companion & check if your GM will allow you to train him for the 'War Beast' template from MM2. This basically improves your companion the same way a Horse becomes a Warhorse.

If yes, then your Riding Dog has Str & Con 18 at 1st lvl, along with a Trip Attack & 3HD. (Wpn Focus Bite is good feat).
Attack: Bite +7 (C/w Wpn Focus)
Dam: D6+6
Trip Attack: +4
HP 25
AC 16 (Dex+2, Nat Armour +4)
Spd 50' (Includes Template's +10')

Take Companion Spellbond from PHBII, and you can now share spells up to 30' away. One level of Cleric with Strength Domain allows you to enlarge your 'pet', so his damage/trip attacks are even nastier..
(Potions work differently than when you cast spell yourself).

Just take Shillelagh for yourself, and Magic Fang for the Dog and let combat commence!

Cheers
Paul H