[D&D4e] Battlerager quandary

[Townopolis]

Ok, so the battlerager fighter gets the super-special benefit that any temp. HP gained from invigorating powers stacks with everything else. But everything else still doesn't stack with itself. This begs the question, in what order do you remove temp. HP?

To illustrate:

MBEG hits Bob the Battlerager, Bob gets 4 Temps.
Bob hits MBEG, bob gets 4 Temps (invigorating).

(Bob now has 8 temps, 4 from invigorating, and 4 others.)

Minion Millie hits Bob for 4 damage. Bob loses 4 temps, then gains 4 temps.

Does Bob now have 4 or 8 temps? If Millie's damage is taken out of his invigorating temps, he is left with 4 because the normal temps don't stack. If Millie's damage is taken out of his regular temps, he's left with 8.

You might argue that damage is taken out of the last temps to be gained, but this can get needlessly complicated, as your fighter is now having to keep track of 3 pools of temps (one pool of non-invigorating, then one pool each for invigorating temps gained before and after the first pool).

[Tengu_temp]

Since I DM under a "if you're not sure, go with what's more beneficial for the players" rule, I'd say he has 8 temporary HP.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm AFB, but I don't think that there are different "kinds" of temp HP.

If you get THP from an invigorating source, they are added to whatever THP you have; whereas if you get THP from anything else, they overwrite whatever THP you have (or are ignored, if they are less than that). In both cases, you end up with one set of THP, not two.

[NPCMook]

Bob has 8 Temp HP, Bob's Temp HP stacks with his invigorating Temp HP.

Also the Temp HP that bob gains when hit is also Invigorating Temp HP

[The Mormegil]

It's got 4 temp hps.

The problem is that there are NOT two different types of temporary hit points. The ability says that "temporary hps from your Invigorating powers stack with other temporary hps". So you still use the normal rules about temp hps, but when you use an Invigorating power you add your temporary hps instead of replenishing them. Battlerager's class feature is NOT an Invigorating power.

So, if a BV uses Crushing Surge and gains 4 temp hps, then is hit by an enemy for 3 damages, he loses 3 temp hps then gain 4 temp hps that do not stack.
If he was hit by the enemy BEFORE using crushing surge he would have taken 3 damages, gained 4 temporary hps, then gained ANOTHER 4 temp hps from Crushing Surge that stack for a total of 8 temporary hps and 3 damages.

[eepop]

Also, I think it works a lot more seamlessly if you take "stacking" to mean:

"If you would not gain temporary HP from an invigorating power because you already have temporary HP, you may add the number of temporary HP that would be gained to your current number of temporary HP."

Under this method, there is no "which do I lose first" or "two kinds of temp HP" problems.

[Townopolis]

Also, I think it works a lot more seamlessly if you take "stacking" to mean:

"If you would not gain temporary HP from an invigorating power because you already have temporary HP, you may add the number of temporary HP that would be gained to your current number of temporary HP."

Under this method, there is no "which do I lose first" or "two kinds of temp HP" problems.

This makes sense and sounds right to me. Not mathematically or according to my theorycraft, just because interpreting the rules this way takes it from "incompletely explained as written" to "completely explained."

[hamishspence]

I wonder if people have statted out multiclass battlerager/barbarians (PP Frenzied Berzerker) yet? (I interpret the per-day ability of the barbarian multiclass feat as "counts as a rage for all rules purposes")

Not just A Battlerager, but The Most Wild Battlerager.

[Asbestos]

Bob has 8 Temp HP, Bob's Temp HP stacks with his invigorating Temp HP.

Also the Temp HP that bob gains when hit is also Invigorating Temp HP

No, because the hp gained from his BRV feature does not stack. Bob has only 4 thp because he lost 4 and then gained 4 points of thp. Bob already had 4 points of thp so, since this new thp doesn't stack, he is left with 4thp. As others have noted, they are not two separate pools of hit points.

[ColdSepp]

No, because the hp gained from his BRV feature does not stack. Bob has only 4 thp because he lost 4 and then gained 4 points of thp. Bob already had 4 points of thp so, since this new thp doesn't stack, he is left with 4thp. As others have noted, they are not two separate pools of hit points.

Correct. The only Temp HPs that stack are those that come from a power with the Invigorating Keyword. The BVR Class Feature does not have this Keyword.