[4e] Channel Divinity

[LibraryOgre]

In exchange for a feat, how many more uses of Channel Divinity would you allow a round? At what tier?

[Inyssius Tor]

I presume you mean per encounter, rather than per round?

I'm not particularly balance-oriented.

HOWEVER, there exists a paragon-tier Drow feat that uncouples darkfire and cloud of darkness; i.e. it makes them two separate encounter powers rather than alternative uses of one encounter power. Perhaps that could be a useful benchmark.

[Starbuck_II]

Aren't they usually minor actions to use?
Plus, aren't they limited to 1/encounter?

But if you took a feat that allowed multiple of them:

I limit you to as many as possible/round, but 1 encounter of each.

Heroic 1/encounter of each.
Paragon: 2/encounter of each.
Epic: 3/encounter of each.

[Holocron Coder]

There's an epic destiny, I believe it is, that allows you to use ALL your Channel Divinity feats in an encounter.

[RTGoodman]

There's an epic destiny, I believe it is, that allows you to use ALL your Channel Divinity feats in an encounter.

Yep, it's from Player's Handbook 2, but I can't remember the name off-hand.


I'd probably suggest a feat (Expanded Divinity?) that does what Starbuck says (as many per round as you want with your action limitations, but an increasing number per tier). I don't think it'd be too broken.

[Belobog]

Yep, it's from Player's Handbook 2, but I can't remember the name off-hand.

What you're looking for is Revered One; I think the Channel Divinity ability is its level 22 feature.

[Kurald Galain]

In exchange for a feat, how many more uses of Channel Divinity would you allow a round? At what tier?

Balance-wise, it wouldn't be a big deal because most channel divinity powers are rather weak (with the notable exception of Righteous Cheese of Tempus), and you burn through your feats rather quickly if you want to get more of them.

On top of that, you can only take CD feats for one deity, which limits you to one (or two in the FR, as you can take the feat for an FR deity, and also the feat for its equivalent deity in the PHB). This may change in Divine Power, but I doubt it.

So as an epic destiny power, this is extremely weak. I'd say that for a heroic feat, you can use one extra per encounter; or instead, for a paragon feat, you can use all of them. I see no need to limit either of those per round.

[Ninetail]

On top of that, you can only take CD feats for one deity

This is not true.

You can only take Channel Divinity feats for a patron deity, but not all divine classes are limited to a single patron deity. For instance, "Sometimes clerics are devoted to churches that venerate groups of deities or even philosophies." (PHB p. 61). A cleric of a church that venerates a group of deities could potentially have a Channel Divinity feat for each of those deities, although that would generally be a subpar choice.

As for the original poster's question... I'd allow a use of a second, different Channel feat as a paragon feat. If I were to allow a second use of a single Channel feat in a single encounter, it would be an epic feat. (Although I did make a paragon path that allows this as its spend-an-action-point benefit, and there's an official paragon path in PHB2 that does the same thing, so as a class feature, it's fine for paragon levels. The difference is the opportunity cost.)

[Kurald Galain]

You can only take Channel Divinity feats for a patron deity, but not all divine classes are limited to a single patron deity.

The way I see it, the cleric class (PHB 61) offers three options, (1) "the worship of a specific patron deity" or (2) "devoted to churches that venerate groups of deities", or (3) "even philosophies".

However, every channel divinity feat printed so far has the prerequisite that the character worships a particular patron deity. That means that clerics are only eligible for CD feats if they pick option 1 above.

I suppose that leaves it open to interpretation; however, most DMs I know would indeed object to a character from worshipping two deities simultaneously.

I'd allow a use of a second, different Channel feat as a paragon feat. If I were to allow a second use of a single Channel feat in a single encounter, it would be an epic feat.

What CD powers do you think become problematic if used twice in the same encounter? Other than, of course, RROT.

[Yakk]

How about "once per encounter, you may lose a healing surge and use an extra use of channel divinity."

That adds flexibility, and burns power for power. It does increase your burst power somewhat.

Another option would be to sacrifice your second wind as a minor action for an extra use of channel divinity.

[Kurald Galain]

How about "once per encounter, you may lose a healing surge and use an extra use of channel divinity."

Depends on your DM. I've never actually had a character run out of healing surges, so the cost wouldn't bother me.

Another option would be to sacrifice your second wind as a minor action for an extra use of channel divinity.

I've never actually used second wind either (because skipping an attack to heal yourself for a small amount is really not such a great strategy, when there's cheap potions and leaders that can do that much better) so this one wouldn't bother me either.

[LibraryOgre]

I did mean per encounter, not per round. Mea culpa.

[Oracle_Hunter]

How about "once per encounter, you may lose a healing surge and use an extra use of channel divinity."

That adds flexibility, and burns power for power. It does increase your burst power somewhat.

I like it, though I'd probably limit that to a 1/EN ability. I worry about worshipers of the All-Gods suddenly having an extra power per feat.

[Ninetail]

The way I see it, the cleric class (PHB 61) offers three options, (1) "the worship of a specific patron deity" or (2) "devoted to churches that venerate groups of deities", or (3) "even philosophies".

However, every channel divinity feat printed so far has the prerequisite that the character worships a particular patron deity. That means that clerics are only eligible for CD feats if they pick option 1 above.

Or option 2. There's nothing forbidding you from having multiple patron deities. A lot of the time, it even makes sense -- Erathis plus Ioun plus Corellon for a cleric devoted to culture and art, for instance, or Kord plus Bahamut for a cleric devoted to battle for the cause of justice.

It does seem to exclude option 3, though of course an individual GM could homebrew appropriate feats, or allow the existing ones on the basis of portfolio; someone dedicated to a fatalist philosophy might well find favor with the Raven Queen whether he acknowledges her as a patron or not.

I suppose that leaves it open to interpretation; however, most DMs I know would indeed object to a character from worshipping two deities simultaneously.

Whereas most of the ones I've played with would not, mainly since worshipping multiple deities was fairly common among polytheistic societies historically.

What CD powers do you think become problematic if used twice in the same encounter? Other than, of course, RROT.

Turn Undead: Quite a large amount of damage to pump out, and a decent amount of battlefield control, too.

Pelor's Radiance: Like Turn, but even better. A bit dangerous due to the range, but lots of radiant damage plus a stun.

Abjure Undead: Not as good as Turn, but still a whole bunch of radiant damage. These three powers could pretty much trivialize any fight involving undead, if used multiple times per encounter. They're meant to be a powerful asset in that situation, sure, but sequential zaps might be a little much.

Moradin's Resolve: Not really that bad, but a minor action for a +2 untyped bonus to all of your attacks for two rounds isn't too shabby, if you're facing Large creatures anyway.

Preserver's Rebuke: A huge bonus to an attack roll, used in conjunction with the right controlling power, could spell trouble. Doing it twice in every fight?

Game-breaking? Probably not (although that Invoker one is pretty darn good). Powerful? Yeah. Situationally, for the most part, but yeah. Add in the feats I added to account for my extended pantheon, and I have no hesitation about making it an epic feat.