3.5 Skill System Reform

[Grazhendul]

3.5 Skill System Reform


Forgery? Decipher script? Really? They might be fun for some fluff, but in the end, which skill monkey really wants to put his valuable ranks in them?


So let’s mash them all together and gain these categories:

Acrobatics (Balance/ Jump/ Tumble/ Climb/…
Arcana (Spellcraft/ Decipher script/ …
Athletics (Jump/ Swim/ Climb/ Ride/…
Deceit ( Disguise/ Bluff/ Forgery/ …
Nature (Survival/ Handle Animal/ Use Rope/ …
Perception (Listen/ Spot/ …
Social (Diplomacy/ Sense Motive/ …
Stealth (Hide/ Move Silently/ …
Streetwise (Gather Info/ Intimidate/ …
Thievery (Disable Device/ Escape Artist/ Open Lock/ Sleight of hand/ Use Rope/ Search/ …
Use magic device

These sets are rather broad and might overlap sometimes. The DM can wing specific situations for sets to incorporate certain detailed skills (Ex. Nature could be used to set up small traps as could thievery, …)


Concentration and heal will be class traits

Concentration: Caster LvL + con mod (All casters)
Heal: Class LvL + wis mod (Rangers, Clerics, Paladins, Druids)
-Can be gained with a feat.

Most knowledges will be attributed to corresponding skills (Nature: know nature, …) or/and made available as a class trait, again gained as an extra with a feat.


But as we’ve cut the amount of skills drastically we need to redefine the amount of skill points gained, I honestly have no idea how to balance this.

Your average class will have +/-3 sets.

But I’m stuck on concrete figures.

What would be balanced?
How can I make None-Class skills suck less?


Should I go with a ½ Class + ability + ranks system?
Or should I go with a 1 rank = 1 SP, 2nd rank = 3 SP System?


As Usual, I’m lost on balance, so help is appreciated.

[RandomFellow]

You shouldn't cross post.


My personal system is (reduces total skills by 13):
For classes with 8 skill points, they now have 6.

For classes with 6 skill points, they now have 4.

For classes with 4 skill points, they now have 3.

For classes with 2 skill points, they remain unchanged.

Perception (Wis) (Combined Skill: Spot, Listen)

Negotiation (Cha) (Combined Skill: Diplomacy, Sense Motive)

Sneaking (Dex) (Combined Skill: Hiding, Move Silently)

Athletics (Str) (Combined Skill: Swimming, Climbing, Jump)

Acrobatics (Dex) (Combined Skill: Tumble, Balance, Escape Artist)

Deception (Cha) (Combined Skill: Disguise, Bluff)

Disable Device (Int) (Combined Skill: Disable Device, Open Lock)

Profession (Int) (Combined Skill: Profession, Craft)

Linguist (Int) (Combined Skill: Decipher Script, Speak Language)

Magecraft (Int) (Combined Skill: Spellcraft, Psicraft)

Sleight of Hand (Dex) (Combined Skill: Sleight of Hand, Use Rope)

[Kroy]

This might be of interest: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107629
Edit: As well as this:

Removed or Altered Skills

1. Balance See Acrobatics
2. Climb See Athletics
3. Escape Artist See Acrobatics
4. Forgery See Legerdemain
5. Gather Information See Diplomacy
6. Hide See Stealth
7. Jump See Athletics
8. Listen See Awareness
9. Move Silently See Stealth
10. Open Lock See Disable Device
11. Search See Awareness
12. Sleight Of Hand See Legerdemain
13. Spot See Awareness
14. Swim See Athletics
15. Tumble See Acrobatics
16. Use Rope See Survival

[VelvetThunder]

While I do think the skill system needs some work... I don't think that merging / mashing it together like that is fair. It would vastly help low skill classes, and would hurt higher skill classes. Part of the character building is deciding which specific things you'll be good at. Even if it is a fluff thing like Forgery.

[Satyr]

For Serpents and Sewers, which may not be as popular as Fax' total conversion of the rules, we came up with four rules which were easy to implement :

1. all skills are based on two, not one ability bonus, to emphasize the importance of abilities for the skill use;
   
2. Every character gains additional skill points and more class skills, which are basically based on his social and cultural background (e.g. if you grew up on a ship, you probably know how to swim and how to work on a ship);
   
3. Cross-class skills cost only one skill point per rank, but the number of maximum ranks stands in effect (which effectively means that every character gains the Able Learner Feat for free at 1st level);
   
4. At the end of each story arc, adventure or campaign, the Gamemaster distributes a handful of additional skill points for specific skills based on the events in said arc (a detective plot could gain bonuses for Gather Information and Sense Motive, for example), things the character would probably have newly learned (which means, that your knowledge skills are slowly increasing if you want or not; you cannot not learn) and the dedication and and effort of the player behind the character; all things equal the character that is better played should be better on the mechanical side as well; as a rule of thumb, I give out up to five to ten of these additional skill points per story arc.

It works perfect and greatly increases the character's versimilitude as their knowledge and skills are no longer determined by dull mechanical reasons alone but become a reflection of their experiences and biographies.
In addition, some skills gain additional functions - Intimidate, for example can be used to actually scare opponents in combats, and Decipher Script becomes the measurement for literacy - a character with no ranks in the skill is automatically considered illeterate, and one can read one script per rank, analogous to Speak Languages.

[RandomFellow]

While I do think the skill system needs some work... I don't think that merging / mashing it together like that is fair. It would vastly help low skill classes, and would hurt higher skill classes. Part of the character building is deciding which specific things you'll be good at. Even if it is a fluff thing like Forgery.

Logic Failure.

2x2 is 4.
2x3 is 6.
2x4 is 8.
2x6 is 12.

Multipliers (such as 2 skills for the price of 1) are more valuable the more skill points you have. Unless your going to claim 6 skill points / level is a 'low skill' class?

[VelvetThunder]

Logic Failure.

2x2 is 4.
2x3 is 6.
2x4 is 8.
2x6 is 12.

Multipliers (such as 2 skills for the price of 1) are more valuable the more skill points you have. Unless your going to claim 6 skill points / level is a 'low skill' class?

Perhaps I was hasty in my judgement. That does make alot more sense now.