Coup De Grace, any tips?

[Alcopop]

Hey guys,

At the moment i'm trying to make a coup de grace hexblade. the problem i'm finding is getting the enemy helpless. (I can stun, trip, tasha's ect but can't get them "helpless")

here is the official definition;

Helpless.
Paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (-5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus. Ranged attacks gets no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. (A rogue also gets her sneak attack damage bonus against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.) If the defender survives, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die.Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity.Creatures that are immune to critical hits do not take critical damage, nor do they need to make Fortitude saves to avoid being killed by a coup de grace.

any thoughts on how to best achive this? feats? spells? class features?

[jcsw]

Paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious

Try for one of these.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/it...tm#coupdeGrace

[Alcopop]

Good thought but because i'll be going for a death motif and using a scythe (lame I know) nat 20s will be rare as anything.

Think i found an answer though, iron bands of bilarro;
range touch attack and they're bound. (large or smaller) useable once per day 27k
not perfect, but certinly usable.

[kjones]

I think there's a spell that has similar functionality, but I can't find it at the moment... maybe SpC.

[Starbuck_II]

I think there's a spell that has similar functionality, but I can't find it at the moment... maybe SpC.

Complete Arcane/Spell Compendruim has Bands of Steel:
Depending on version used:
1) Helpless on a failed save
2) Unable to move but not helpless (what?) on a failed save.

Success on save is entangled.

[RTGoodman]

Paralysis and unconsciousness are your friends here. Both leave an opponent helpless, meaning you need to find ways to make that happen.

Various spells cause paralysis and/or unconsciousness. Hold person and hold monster are classics, as is the basic sleep. Spell Compendium probably has at least a few more, but I don't own it. Otherwise, non-lethal damage causes unconsciousness, as does normal damage, but at that point you shouldn't even both with a coup de grace. Poison could be useful, since oil of taggit and drow sleep poison both cause unconsciousness for cheap, but the DC is rather low as-is. If you could find a way to make it yourself for cheap AND increase the DC (i think there are some feats for that somewhere), I might go that route.

The other weapon you could pull out is ability damage. A creature with Con reduced to 0 dies, while any other score at 0 leads to paralysis or a coma, both of which are specifically mentioned to cause helplessness. Poison, again, can cause ability damage, while a lot of spells do the same. It just depends on what's on your character's spell list.

[FinalJustice]

If you are not dead set on Hexblade, try a Cleric:

The spell Surge of Fortune (RoD, if I recall correctly) is a round/level +x luck bonus to a lot of rolls. You can discharge it to treat any roll as a natural 20. Couple that with a Vorpal Scythe and your Scythe-killing-dude is always one confirmation away from the OHKO.

In case you don't want to spend all your 5th level slots on SoF, you have some alternatives:
- If the spell is in any domain, grab the Domain Spontaneity feat (or ACF, don't remember).
- If not, trick your DM using the Customize Domain feat (you can REALLY fit the spell into Luck Domain).
- If this also fails, play a Favored Soul.

[Darrin]

The other weapon you could pull out is ability damage. A creature with Con reduced to 0 dies, while any other score at 0 leads to paralysis or a coma, both of which are specifically mentioned to cause helplessness. Poison, again, can cause ability damage, while a lot of spells do the same. It just depends on what's on your character's spell list.

Zero Dex also renders an opponent helpless. Check with your DM on how he interprets Dex penalties from different sources. For example, you can hit someone with a web spell (entangled on a failed save, -4 Dex), a net (ranged touch attack, another entangle for -4 Dex), and a lasso (BoED, "partially entangled" whatever that means, -4 Dex). If your DM considers those three different sources of entanglement, congratulations, you have almost everything you need to solo a Tarrasque. Give the lasso to your familiar, since it doesn't have a size restriction like the net.

If your DM is too sharp to fall for that and says you can't stack the penalty from multiple entangles, then try some fatigue or exhaustion effects, since those Dex penalties will stack with entangle.

If that isn't enough, then try a maximized ray of clumsiness (SC, 1d6+1/2 CL Dex penalty). Important tip: creatures that are normally immune to ability damage or ability drain are *not* immune to ability penalties.

And if you want your DM sobbing bitter tears of shame, then maximized shivering touch (Frostburn) should do the trick.

[ChaosDefender24]

You could play a gravetouched ghoul - all of your natural attacks force fortitude saves to avoid paralysis. The thing here is that the scythe will not be your primary means of attacking...

The Dark Companion ACF especially works well with this tactic.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The feat Freezing the Lifeblood from Complete Warrior renders opponents paralyzed. It functions the same way as Stunning Fist, which is a prerequisite. They're only paralyzed for one round, which means it will go away at the start of your next turn so you won't be able to CDG them yourself. However, if you hit them with it on an AoO on their turn it will last through your next turn and you'll be able to CDG them.

[TheCountAlucard]

This won't help with actually making the coup de grace, but if you're playing an evil character at higher levels and still doing the coup de grace theme, you might go with the Harvester of Souls feat from Elder Evils. Then your coup de grace steals their soul, simultaneously powering you up and making them unable to be resurrected.

[ericgrau]

Drow knockout poision.

[Atamasama]

My only tip is to come up with some witty one-liners you can quip while executing the enemy.

For ideas I'd recommend renting some 80s action films.

[lsfreak]

Drow knockout poision.

You'd need to homebrew some with higher DC's for anything beyond the first few levels of play, DC13 isn't particularly threatening.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

You'd need to homebrew some with higher DC's for anything beyond the first few levels of play, DC13 isn't particularly threatening.

Not for his build, no. Something like: Level 16 Ranger, Rapid Shot, Splitting Bow, Haste. 12 attacks. Poison each arrow, toss in a weapon enhancement that forces another save, and they'll fail something that round.

[Alcopop]

Thanks for the replys guys! I am pretty set with hexblade so the spells arn't really an option for this build (I wish hexblades had advanced learning)

poison might work though, if i can find one with a decent DC. i'm going for a full debuffer hexblade so they're looking at something around a -8 to -12 on saves.

The penaltys to dex seem like a nice way of doing things, but my DM's a pretty smart cookie. so probably no luck (though i'll still look into it)

Here's my build so far, oh, and i'm playing an Aasimar for flavor. Full Hexblade

1 Dreadful Wrath
1 Bind Vestage
1 Imp Bind Vestage (for focalor, prince of tears. aura of sadness)
3 Power Attack
6 Deathblow
9 Attain Familar (So i have both dark companion and one)
12 Draconic Familar (Can use wands, the iron bands of binding, ect. taking black)
15 Harvester of Souls (Omg! love this feat! thank you TheCountAlucard for pointing me to this!)
18 - ??
(taking flaws for the two extra feats)

I'm pretty happy with how things are shaping up for this. still have a level 18 feat to pick though.

[TheCountAlucard]

...thank you TheCountAlucard for pointing me to this!

You're very welcome.