Building a copper wyrm

[Renegade Paladin]

3.5, obviously, since good dragons don't exist in 4e.

Long story, short version: One of the other characters in the party of the game I'm currently playing in is a platinum knight/vassal of Bahamut, and used his consequently gigantic Diplomacy modifier vs. good dragons to convince a nearby copper wyrm to help us with a rash of evil dragons plaguing us. (For those with a more than passing familiarity with the Forgotten Realms, we're in Thesk and the wyrm is Filauxerimos.) The DM doesn't want to build him, and says I may do it; otherwise he'll use the sample out of the Draconomicon.

The dragon has eight bard levels. Because he has PC levels, I'm to use the elite array. The DM says that for most dragons he'd simply generate a hoard and equip the dragon with anything useful that came up in the charts, but in this case since he has class levels, I get to equip him as well.

The game runs on Thursday, so this needs to be done in two days. The sheet is here. I have access to almost all the 3.5 books, including all the Monster Manuals, the Draconomicon, and (*shudder*) Dragons of Faerun in addition to the more standard PC-oriented books. I can build a well-rounded and challenging dragon, but it's in my interests to make this thing as deadly as possible, seeing how it will be killing my enemies, whom we have thus far had much trouble killing.

So: Ideas?

[Keld Denar]

HOLY CRAP! Thats a Wyrm...you know he casts as a 17th level sorcerer?

God this is gonna take a lot of time. All those feats to consider. Oh, and you qualify for Epic Spellcasting, and all that shananananananananagans. Oh, and with 43 HD (35 dragon + 8 Bard), you have ~14 feats to spend. A the higher level of those, you have an Initiator Level high enough to take like, Rabid Mongoose or Gorrileon Windmill Fleshrip or even Time Stands Still. Holy Carp!

Some ideas include:
Power Attack (duh!)
Rapid Strike (Claws and/or Wings)
Improved Rapid Strike (Claws and/or Wings)
Improved Multiattack
Improved Natural Attack (Claws or Wings)

Maybe some Breath feats like:
Clinging Breath
Entangling Exhalation
Heighten Breath (for really stupid DCs)

And some epic stuff like
Epic Spellcasting
Spell Stowaway (Time Stop or such)
Improved Metamatic

And maybe even some flight stuff like
Flyby Attack
Snatch
Strafing Breath (Dragonlance Campaign Setting)
Hover

For spells, there is a ton of utility you can pick up at mid to low levels.
Blood Wind (ranged melee attack!)
Scintilating Scales
Greater Mirror Image
Greater Blinking
Blinding Breath
Dispelling Breath
Breath Admixture
etc

And also for bardic stuff...you already have the Dragon subtype, so you qualify for Dragonfire Inspiration. That + Vest of Legends + Inspirational Boost + Song of the Heart + Badge of Valor= 6d6 Acid damage on every hit. With Improved Rapid Strike on both wings and claws, you are talking about around 12 attacks per round, or 72d6 acid damage + dragon attack and power attack damage. Oh, and its at RANGE thanks to Blood Wind.

And I haven't even gotten into gear. A dragon that old should have MILLIONS of gold worth of magical gear, some of which should be useable. Things like a Gem of Fortification and a Pectoral of Flight should be no brainers. Other gear you can aquire as you wish. Maybe an unslotted item that gives +6 to all ability scores and whatnot. The posibilities are endless.

You got a big project here. Best of luck!

[Olo Demonsbane]

This is one of my Favorite past times (I once designed a CR 101 10-Headed Black Dragon for fun).

Id start by getting the following feats:
Dragonfire inspiration (+6d6 acid is FUN)
Power Attack
Leap Attack
Shocktrooper Assault
Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike (claws and wings).
Epic Spellcasting (duh)
Multiattack, Improved Multiattack
Dire Charge

Congratulations, you have built an Ubercharger Dragon. This guy gets 1 bite attack, 8 claw attacks, 8 wing attacks, and 1 tail attack. Add in Dragonfire Insipiration, Leap Attack for -43 AC (Keep your healers ready) and this guy does something like (assuming all hits) 92d6+18d8+1288 (assuming 40 Str).

Thats like 1691 damage on a charge!

Add in the ability to cast Time stop, Familicide, Animate Earth, Every-Single-Buff-Spell...

Your DM is really, really nice.


I "built" this assuming you wanted him melee based...which can change. For your feats get:

Empower Spell
Maximize Spell
Twin Spell
Chain Spell
Split Ray
Arcane Thesis (enervation)
Quicken Spell
Improved Metamagic
Epic Spellcasting
Spell Focus (abjuration)
Greater Spell Focus (abjuration)
Epic Spell Focus (abjuration)
Practiced Spellcaster x2

Now this guy can cast, in one turn, Empowered (+0), Maximized (+1), Twin (+2), Chain Spell (+1), Split Ray (+0) Enervation in an 8th level spell slot, or Maw of Chaos (25d6 damage to large area, High DC vs Daze), or Familicide...

EDIT: CLAWS OF THE RIPPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jack_Simth]

HOLY CRAP! Thats a Wyrm...you know he casts as a 17th level sorcerer?

God this is gonna take a lot of time. All those feats to consider. Oh, and you qualify for Epic Spellcasting

Err... Epic Spellcasting requires 9th level spells. A 17th level Sorcerer only gets up to 8th level spells. You'd need a level of, you know, Sorcerer on top to get that.

[Starbuck_II]

Err... Epic Spellcasting requires 9th level spells. A 17th level Sorcerer only gets up to 8th level spells. You'd need a level of, you know, Sorcerer on top to get that.

So 7 Bard levels and one Prestiege class level?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Oops, sorry, forgot about that.

My game (I play a heavily modified version of 3.5) gives sorcerers the same spell advancement as wizards (new spells at odd levels), so I forgot about this...

[Renegade Paladin]

Err... Epic Spellcasting requires 9th level spells. A 17th level Sorcerer only gets up to 8th level spells. You'd need a level of, you know, Sorcerer on top to get that.

This. I can't alter his level build.

Thanks for the suggestions. Can't talk more about it now; I should have gone to bed hours ago.

[mostlyharmful]

So, we've got a 43 HD dragon, I assume you want something powerful but not fully optimized.

Ok, then there's three areas to work on - Feats, Spells and Items... pretty much in that order.

If it's got Bard levels it'll be a socially focussed manipulator and buffer rather than a straight melee power house (or at least not an overly focussed one) so feats maybe:
Power Attack (essential)
Wingover & Hover, improved natural attack (basic Dragon)
Heighten spell (for enchantments)
Spell focus and greater spell focus (enchantment)
Skill Focus (Bluff) (flavour)
Quicken Spell (it's a caster)
Spell preperation (it's a sucky spont caster, bleh)

maybe flyby attack and snatch for the yuks.

Then Epic stuff.... just go to town on the stuff you want it to focus on, either casting or skill use

Spells:
All Dragons should have Improved Invis, Blood Wind and Scintellating Scales.... after that you can choose to fous on mental manipulation or buffing to play into it's Bard role or self buffs as a Gish Dragon, pick up Glibness for sure and some suggestion, charm and dominate effects plus some fun illusion stuff. Don't forget contingency and greater mage armour and improved mirror image cause any caster should have them let alone an out of the box Gish like a dragon.

Items:
i like the scale of manuverability and stat boosts to start with and some items giving miss chances to attackers. After that it doesn't need a whole lot so go to town on wacky dodads that an eccentric bard dragon would stock.

[Renegade Paladin]

Some more detail on this particular dragon: He's the patriarch of his family, some of whom will also be on hand attending the street festival that we believe our enemies plan to attack. (They're just getting the standard Draconomicon sample treatment if they enter into the anticipated battle at all.) He and his clan possess a draconic castle on a mountain overlooking the sea, and make a hobby of destroying pirate ships, so I may dip into Stormwrack for combat feats just for fun. Or I might not, considering that the DM has a policy of he only gets to use a book if we crack it first, and I don't think we've opened that one up to him yet. I may squeeze Strafing Breath in there, the better to rake a ship stem to stern.

[Olo Demonsbane]

DO NOT HAVE IT SPECIALIZE AS A BARD! IT IS A ****************** DRAGON!

Use its Bard levels for Dragonfire Insipiration...and thats pretty much it.

[mostlyharmful]

Some more detail on this particular dragon: He's the patriarch of his family, some of whom will also be on hand attending the street festival that we believe our enemies plan to attack.

Hang on.... you don't just get a frikken Wyrm with class levels (who cares what they are, it's epic feats) you get a good slice of it's family tagging along..... er..... what's the point in you guys being there again? Unless you're all into Epic they're going to outclass you so bad it's not even funny, it would be like adventuring with Raistlin, Elminster and Mordenkain in the party.

[Renegade Paladin]

We are. Let me worry about that end.

Edit: To not be so short about it, he's probably going to end up simply occupying one part of what's coming. Powerful as he is, he can only be in one place... and mere young adults are far below the party in power. In fact, they haven't agreed to help us at all; they came because they heard there was a party. Given the power of the chromatics arrayed against us, if they put in an appearance the younger coppers are likely to simply flee.

[mostlyharmful]

We are. Let me worry about that end.

Ok, then if you want to push the power while staying in character for a clever wyrm try to snag the Loredrake feature from Dragons of Eberron, I know it's cross world but a good justification of it should work, boosts the casting to 19th and gives spellcraft as an in class skill at the 'cost' of reducing the Dragon HD down to d10s, that'd be a huge boost to it's power (9th level spells and epic casting, woooooo) without being too unreasonable.

Otherwise there's some ways that it can indeed be in two places at once, not least of which is a scroll of Gate from it's vast resourses to call in more high caliber help or some planer bound minions with chunky SLAs. Or you could use Astral projection (from scroll or minion caster, doesn't run out so why not) to give it an instant refresh if it's killed. Standerd mage tricks abound with a Wyrms int, casting and horde to throw around.

And don't totally discount the Young Adults, they might not be up to an Old Black or what have you but they'll be just about as fast and can do harry/distract tactics as well as dog piling any they lure away. If their old man gets heavily into it they aren't likely to just cut and run and leave him.

[Renegade Paladin]

And also for bardic stuff...you already have the Dragon subtype, so you qualify for Dragonfire Inspiration. That + Vest of Legends + Inspirational Boost + Song of the Heart + Badge of Valor= 6d6 Acid damage on every hit. With Improved Rapid Strike on both wings and claws, you are talking about around 12 attacks per round, or 72d6 acid damage + dragon attack and power attack damage. Oh, and its at RANGE thanks to Blood Wind.

Including blood wind, there's three swift actions in there. The combo's a no go. Just so you know.

[Renegade Paladin]

Well, the dragon really saved our bacon, driving off some half-golem abyssal drake monstrosity with about ten different grafts. I'm going to go play the dragon against the thing later on, but he's fighting the monster separately from the party over another part of the city. Here's the build I went with.

The rest of the encounter is hard enough. I'm playing one paladin optimized for vampire hunting; the other (the platinum knight who diplomanced the wyrm in the first place) is optimized for dragon slaying. There's a vampiric bronze dragon, apparently a thrall to the vampiric green dragon in the triumvirate that's been plaguing us, also attacking, and we were going to take it together. But then some wizard blasted my partner with a death effect requiring a DC 42 save to overcome; she missed it by one. I had the good sense to have death ward up, but I have a feeling it's only a matter of time. The two neutral members of the party took one look at the attacking force and ran for their lives...