GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread

[ErrantX]

I decided I'd set up a new chat thread to discuss so I can be in control of the OP and start over with a fresh slate on #10.

Current Contest is: Live and Die by the Sword

Past Contests:
Contest XV: Where The Wyld Things Are
Contest XIV: Hybrid Theory
Contest XIII: Music and Lyrics
Contest XII: Can we Rebuild it? Yes we can!
Contest XI: Fallen, yet not Forgotten
Contest X: Draw, Partner!
Contest IX: It's Morphin' Time!
Contest VIII: Bow down to my Fist!
Contest VII: It's Elementary!
Contest VI: The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste
Contest V: Champion of the Common Man
Contest IV: My Faith is Unswerving
Contest III: We Band of Brothers
Contest II: Soul Power!
Contest I: Test My Sword, Meet Your End

Picture Contests (by the Witchking)
Current Contest: TBA
Worth a Thousand Words II
Worth a Thousand Words 1 - The Witchlamp by TSED

-X

[Bobmufin52]

This seems like the theam and I have an idea for a class, but one question. Are we supose to make up the firearms the class is supose to use?

[ErrantX]

Either cite examples from books (book name and page reference) or in the case of a gnomish artificer BFG wielder, you may want to make up your own. I'll be more specific and place that in the contest heading.

-X

[Bobmufin52]

Either cite examples from books (book name and page reference) or in the case of a gnomish artificer BFG wielder, you may want to make up your own. I'll be more specific and place that in the contest heading.

-X

K, thanks, I was just wondering since my class idea needs a bit of an originaly disinged gun.

[boomwolf]

Does this competition only count "gun" guns, or anything similar? (IE-flamethrowers, RPG and other WW2 tech stuff)
Maybe lower tech? say ancient Asian bombs and rockets?

[ErrantX]

Does this competition only count "gun" guns, or anything similar? (IE-flamethrowers, RPG and other WW2 tech stuff)
Maybe lower tech? say ancient Asian bombs and rockets?

That's totally cool. I never thought of that actually, but I'm totally cool with letting that fly. I can't wait to see what you come up with, grenadiers and bombardiers don't get enough love. Remember, if you're homebrewing weapons as well, you should include them somewhere in your post.

-X

[dyslexicfaser]

Okay, I know I want to make a Pecos Bill PrC (up to and including the ability to lasso and ride absolutely anything), I'm just not sure how to manage it... yet.

[ErrantX]

Okay, I know I want to make a Pecos Bill PrC (up to and including the ability to lasso and ride absolutely anything), I'm just not sure how to manage it... yet.

Hmmm... take the normal abilities of the lasso, and perhaps consider allowing it to be used for things like ranged grapples/pins and of course the trip attack, perhaps disarms as well. Just remember, the class has to be capable of doing something with a firearm of some variety. We're not necessarily looking for cowboys, we're looking for gunslingers of all varieties.

-X

[dyslexicfaser]

The lasso already exists in DnD? I had no idea.

[ErrantX]

The lasso already exists in DnD? I had no idea.

Book of Exalted Deeds I think has it. Non-lethal weapons and the like. Nothing says you can't make one yourself, of course.

-X

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I had an idea for a warforged PrC that starts with something like a flint-lock that retracts to eventually something like an energy cannon that fits in their torso.

[ErrantX]

I had an idea for a warforged PrC that starts with something like a flint-lock that retracts to eventually something like an energy cannon that fits in their torso.

Megaman? :D Go for it, sounds good to me.

-X

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Megaman? :D Go for it, sounds good to me.

-X

...Oh my god you're right, I'm going to be making Megaman.

[Pramxnim]

Go for it, Krimm. We all want Megaman in D&D, don't we?

YES WE DO!

[boomwolf]

Now I am probebly pushing it, but I have a great idea I wonna make a PrC for anyway, Alchemy is considered plausible theme for this contest? (making potions and bombs, excelling in using them.)
Naturally as I have magic's domination over things this alchemist is non-magical, and brews more of chemical then alchemical materials (yet considered alchemical for the game to handle without a heart-attack or chemistry nurdaration.)

[ErrantX]

Now I am probebly pushing it, but I have a great idea I wonna make a PrC for anyway, Alchemy is considered plausible theme for this contest? (making potions and bombs, excelling in using them.)
Naturally as I have magic's domination over things this alchemist is non-magical, and brews more of chemical then alchemical materials (yet considered alchemical for the game to handle without a heart-attack or chemistry nurdaration.)

Well, rockets are fine because they need some sort of launching device and so long as the grenades used also have a launching device (i.e. not thrown by the character, but shot from a grenade launcher-type weapon) it's fine. So long as your stuff is fire and/or shot from a gun/launcher then it's kosher. This is the art of gunslinging after all. I will make sure to specify this in the contest rules now.

-X

[Xallace]

Go for it, Krimm. We all want Megaman in D&D, don't we?

YES WE DO!

AMEN, BROTHER!

I think I'll use Sorcery and Steam's firearms as a base, since they're Open Gaming Material anyway.

Thinking out loud:
Gun-warlock? Nah, to obvious. "Angel-Eye?" Holy marksman? That's got potential, but I can do better. I'll have to think on this for a little while.

[ErrantX]

AMEN, BROTHER!

I think I'll use Sorcery and Steam's firearms as a base, since they're Open Gaming Material anyway.

Thinking out loud:
Gun-warlock? Nah, to obvious. "Angel-Eye?" Holy marksman? That's got potential, but I can do better. I'll have to think on this for a little while.

Works for me as far as guns are concerned. OGL is my very favorite.

And yeah... Gun-warlock? That sounds actually quite bad ass. Angel-Eye sounds pretty neat too, I love the idea of that sort of thing. Reminds me of Trinity Blood.

Seems like I've got a lot of interesting concepts brewing out there, I can't wait to see them!

-X

[DracoDei]

Put the links to ALL the previous contests into the first post some time (use reply on old thread, copy, back out of reply, then edit the first post of this thread).

In other news I THINK I SHOULD actually be able to an entry done this time... will be duel-semi-automatic repeater crossbow weilding Gnomes who use extradimensional magazines and ride blink-dogs into battle with magical saddles that let them Blink and Dimension Door with the dog.

[boomwolf]

Gunlock......DIBS!

[Xallace]

Gunlock......DIBS!

Works for me, that just narrows down my idea list.

Now I only have 6 to choose between! Yay!

[ErrantX]

@Samb

Nice entry! Flavorful and neat. I really enjoyed the idea of fusing the psicrystal into the gun (reminds me vaguely of the magelock pistols of the Gunmages of Iron Kingdoms, but only vaguely) and how its powers and use change. Table is a little confusing, in that you placed the +1 manifester level bit inside of the special abilities area (I'm not harping to fix it, do as you like) but the powers are pretty solid.

At first I was a little concerned over the fact that the revolver's chamber had no bullet bores (because, well, what if the character wants to fire his gun with an actual bullet and not spend power points?) but it's not terrible expensive to use. Now, one thing I was confused about was how your were rating your damage, 2dwhat? Example: "Bolt shot: uses bullets created out of the bolt power to deal 2d (dice determined by round size) damage" I don't understand what this means, please clarify?

Lastly, bonus feat list is a little expansive. Trim it down a couple categories I'd say or give it a specific list of feats to pick from. That's my nitpick there.

Overall, I really dig your class. Flavorful and unique to say the least. Great first entry!

-X

[Samb]

@Samb

Nice entry! Flavorful and neat. I really enjoyed the idea of fusing the psicrystal into the gun (reminds me vaguely of the magelock pistols of the Gunmages of Iron Kingdoms, but only vaguely) and how its powers and use change. Table is a little confusing, in that you placed the +1 manifester level bit inside of the special abilities area (I'm not harping to fix it, do as you like) but the powers are pretty solid.

At first I was a little concerned over the fact that the revolver's chamber had no bullet bores (because, well, what if the character wants to fire his gun with an actual bullet and not spend power points?) but it's not terrible expensive to use. Now, one thing I was confused about was how your were rating your damage, 2dwhat? Example: "Bolt shot: uses bullets created out of the bolt power to deal 2d (dice determined by round size) damage" I don't understand what this means, please clarify?

Lastly, bonus feat list is a little expansive. Trim it down a couple categories I'd say or give it a specific list of feats to pick from. That's my nitpick there.

Overall, I really dig your class. Flavorful and unique to say the least. Great first entry!

-X

About the damage system, 2d means two dice. Damage is based on round size so if you had .45 rounds 2d would mean 2d6, while a .50 round would deal 2d8 (all off of MSRD). I'm not sure how to make that clearer, but I concede it is confusing. I'll work on that.

I purposely made it so that this PrC was completely reliant on his PSP to deal damage. I guess I could add that in order to fire normal bullets you would need to change the cylinder and hammer. Not a practical option in combat but doable.

Agreed on bonus feats. i'll change that.


And thanks for the feedback!!!


PS I made this PrC under the assumption that psicrystals gain feats. it is not a typo in the sample encounter.

[TSED]

Well, some one had to make a classic gun-fu man.


I think I may have dumped a bit too much into the PrC though. Shouldn't be that hard to tweak if people agree.

On the other hand, it's good at what it does and leaves a lot of ways to get around it. /shrug.

[Samb]

Well, some one had to make a classic gun-fu man.


I think I may have dumped a bit too much into the PrC though. Shouldn't be that hard to tweak if people agree.

On the other hand, it's good at what it does and leaves a lot of ways to get around it. /shrug.

I think it's a very powerful PrC but I would have agree with you that you added too much into it. It seems to be a long range sniper and debuffer but it has a bunch of close quarter combat skills as well. I think I see two PrCs here, one with point blank range gunman (flurry is like a machine gun move right?) while another is on a perch. I guess this makes the PrC able to handle all ranges but I do feel it dilutes the focus of the class.

The moves are mechanically solid. You reminded me to defne the parameters of my bounce shot (max angle, how many bounces etc).
Monk gunslingers reminds me of the clerics from equilibrium (with christan bale) so I can see that flavor there.

[TSED]

Yeah, I'm thinking of taking out all the skill tricks and ricochet and just giving 2 free skill tricks at level 4, and replacing Ricochet with Gun Fu.

Alternately maybe drop the BAB from full to 3/4.

Just not sure yet.

[Samb]

Well I think richocet is fine, but I think you should either focus on the gun fu aspect by takng out the far shot and improved far shot and go full out matix/wanted style. Far shot should not increase the range of a pistol since it's barrel and amount of gunpowder that increases range. Add in something like bullet time and call it day.

If you want go an ungodly sniper, allow for a way for him to move from cover easier. And maybe adjust to only 5 levels, since I can't really think of any way to improve snipers other than more range and damage.

[TSED]

Well I think richocet is fine, but I think you should either focus on the gun fu aspect by takng out the far shot and improved far shot and go full out matix/wanted style. Far shot should not increase the range of a pistol since it's barrel and amount of gunpowder that increases range. Add in something like bullet time and call it day.

Yeah, makes sense. Did so.

I was totally tempted to make a bullet time 10th level ability, though. "Cast time stop 1x per day, only you can attack during it."

If you want go an ungodly sniper, allow for a way for him to move from cover easier. And maybe adjust to only 5 levels, since I can't really think of any way to improve snipers other than more range and damage.

I more had those in for mid-range combat, but... meh. I DID say gun-fu, after all.

[Samb]

Yeah, makes sense. Did so.

I was totally tempted to make a bullet time 10th level ability, though. "Cast time stop 1x per day, only you can attack during it."



I more had those in for mid-range combat, but... meh. I DID say gun-fu, after all.

I was thinking how I would play your PrC and I would totally not use any abilities that required me to within 30 feet of anyone and just snipe people all day long. With the abilities that bullet storm has he could trip anyone coming near him, disarm or sunder him next, block any missiles flying at him, and then flurry shot him. An opponent could not even hide or gain cover to avoid these things.

A regular Beretta 92F has a range increment of 40', with improved far shot it is now 120'!!!! At up to 240' he would only have to take -2 on BAB to hit, and -4 for up to 360'. Why would he ever even want to gun fu someone? (that reminds me, I have to include the range increment on my PrC).

Needless to say that is very powerful, but I just thought that it makes all your cooler stuff like gun-fu (the original intent of your PrC) kind of pointless. I like skill tricks myself but how many of them really useful for combat? Maybe you could increase the number of times they can used per encounter like uncanny trickster?

[TSED]

I was thinking how I would play your PrC and I would totally not use any abilities that required me to within 30 feet of anyone and just snipe people all day long. With the abilities that bullet storm has he could trip anyone coming near him, disarm or sunder him next, block any missiles flying at him, and then flurry shot him. An opponent could not even hide or gain cover to avoid these things.

Well, block one missile flying at him until he's high level.

Keep in mind the one handed guns have pretty gosh darned short range increments. Automatic Pistols get 40', revolvers get 30', heck even laser pistols only get 40'. Doubling it to 80' or tripling to 120' means they could actually shoot some one from a distance. About the biggest range is 50'... Ok I guess that makes sense. 150' is a fair distance.

Really, Gun-Fu was more of a 'what to do if some one got close.' Oh well.

Needless to say that is very powerful, but I just thought that it makes all your cooler stuff like gun-fu (the original intent of your PrC) kind of pointless. I like skill tricks myself but how many of them really useful for combat? Maybe you could increase the number of times they can used per encounter like uncanny trickster?

Well, it's out now. Oh, I need to go put Improved Initiative as a prereq too. I think I'll drop the concentration requirement down to 5 for non-monks, as right now only monks and rangers stand a reasonable chance of getting in before 16th. (Sure, clerics / wizards COULD get in... but why?)