GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread

[dangerprawn]

I guess I'd need to see it's table. It strikes me as having an awful lot of abilities man. One suggestion I can give you is to add the Dancing Leaf discipline to it's list of available martial disciplines. It's made by the Demented One, and it's quite fitting I think.

-X

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will add Dancing Leaf to the list of available disciplines (so it gets Setting Sung & Dancing Leaf).

I think I'll remove all the bonus feats to reduce some of the abilities. The others are either stances/maneuvers that they can use as normal, or minor abilities that add to the utility of the class.

[ErrantX]

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will add Dancing Leaf to the list of available disciplines (so it gets Setting Sung & Dancing Leaf).

I think I'll remove all the bonus feats to reduce some of the abilities. The others are either stances/maneuvers that they can use as normal, or minor abilities that add to the utility of the class.

I say put it all together, make a table, and post it to the thread. When it's all put together, it will be much easier to critique.

-X

[Lord_Gareth]

So, thus far I have two combination votes and one for The All-Consuming Void.

[Xallace]

I've tossed in with Ninja of the Golden Eclipse. Who would've thought I'd get mileage out of a ninja of a sun god, eh? Lovin' some honest critiquing, if anyone is so inclined.

[Lord_Gareth]

Alright folks, there's a couple of other routes I can go with this, mechanically, in order to make it competetive against casters. I'd appreciate your input, because I'm trying to make this PrC A. not cripplingly overspecialized and B. not completely broken.

So, what do casters have that others don't? An exponential power curve, great economy of actions, and access to an absurdly varied amount of options. Any class designed to kill casters is going to have to surmount these obstacles. I can see three general routes.

I'm the Juggernaut, bitch! - Immunities abound on this route; energy resistance, good saves, immunity to scrying/divination effects, and others are the hallmark of this idea. If the casters can't touch you, they can't kill you, right?

Scream all you want, Wizard. None of your Wizard friends can hear you now. - Stealth and active dispelling are the hallmarks of this approach; the Voidmind shuts down the casters' protections and options systemically, using light immunities to ensure their stealthy approach. It's hard to cast spells if you've been killed in your sleep.

La Belle Dame sans Merci - Kill the spells in the womb; this approach cuts spells off at the source by inflicting negative levels, devouring spell slots, and drinking hostile magics. More vampiric than anything, this approach /must/ take advantage of surprise and outside immunities to scry-and-die tactics, lest it be caught in the same traps as other martial characters.

[Xallace]

La Belle Dame sans Merci - Kill the spells in the womb; this approach cuts spells off at the source by inflicting negative levels, devouring spell slots, and drinking hostile magics. More vampiric than anything, this approach /must/ take advantage of surprise and outside immunities to scry-and-die tactics, lest it be caught in the same traps as other martial characters.

I like that one.

[ErrantX]

La Belle Dame sans Merci - Kill the spells in the womb; this approach cuts spells off at the source by inflicting negative levels, devouring spell slots, and drinking hostile magics. More vampiric than anything, this approach /must/ take advantage of surprise and outside immunities to scry-and-die tactics, lest it be caught in the same traps as other martial characters.

This.

Also, consider calling it Voidblade, Voidmind is a template that illithids who blow their nose into your emptied skull can give you.

-X

[DragoonWraith]

This contest has taught me that searching the Internet for "chains" is a mistake. One I did see coming, but I would have thought I'd find a warrior bearing chains more easily than I did...

Yes, I'm going for a Chthonic Serpent PrC.

[ErrantX]

This contest has taught me that searching the Internet for "chains" is a mistake. One I did see coming, but I would have thought I'd find a warrior bearing chains more easily than I did...

Yes, I'm going for a Chthonic Serpent PrC.

Yeah... the internet is a filthy, filthy thing. Also, awesome. I'm stoked to see that. I love that discipline :)

-X

[Eldan]

Hey, I spent an hour searching Deviant Art for Fire, Knight, Flaming, Sword and a few others and didn't find anything. Though the filth content was unusually low.

[dangerprawn]

La Belle Dame sans Merci - Kill the spells in the womb; this approach cuts spells off at the source by inflicting negative levels, devouring spell slots, and drinking hostile magics. More vampiric than anything, this approach /must/ take advantage of surprise and outside immunities to scry-and-die tactics, lest it be caught in the same traps as other martial characters.

This one sounds really cool.

Also, I posted the initial version of the combat opportunist in the thread.

[FlamingKobold]

First, of all, what picture do you guys think?

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5.

[ErrantX]

I like #4 myself.

-X

[Eldan]

To be honest, I don't think any of them are fitting... Number one looks great, but would fit more with an archdemon, what with the clouds down there. Number four is nice, but has no fire in it...

[FlamingKobold]

Yeah, I couldn't find much, but if I don't get something better, it's between 4 and 5...

[DeskChairLamp]

Hmm... time to test the waters. I've got three ideas right now.

1) Silver Claimer: (Inspired by the silver claimers from the Rave anime) Warriors that transmute silver into different forms allowing them to confound their foes with their unpredictable attacks.

2) Blade Bewitcher: Summon and enchant weapons to let them fight for them. Focuses casting on weapon augmentation spells.

3) Phantom: Hexblades that channel their ill-fortune through the mystic powers of the Sublime Path, using shadows and hexes to lock their foes down before finishing them off with their martial prowess.

[Fortuna]

Wow. PrCs are more work than I thought. Still, the majority of my class is up. What do you lot think of the dynamist?

[ErrantX]

3) Phantom: Hexblades that channel their ill-fortune through the mystic powers of the Sublime Path, using shadows and hexes to lock their foes down before finishing them off with their martial prowess.

Definitely this. Hexblades need love!

-X

[Lord_Gareth]

My class, the Voidblade Eliminator, is up for critique!

[Xallace]

Wow. PrCs are more work than I thought. Still, the majority of my class is up. What do you lot think of the dynamist?

In concept, pretty sweet! But I feel like you could use some more class features. Or at least a few flashier ones. Momentum-based abilities, area melee attacks, enhanced Spring Attack-type deals, etc. Could a dynamist throw his sword and then catch it on the other side? Could a dynamist already be counting his kills before his victims knew he had moved? Could a charging dynamist produce a sonic boom?

Just something to think about.

[Lord_Gareth]

I would deeply appreciate any P.E.A.C.H.ing people could spare - I'm really nervous about this class ^_^

[Xallace]

I would deeply appreciate any P.E.A.C.H.ing people could spare - I'm really nervous about this class ^_^

OK, well first off, I start with an attitude of "Friendly" towards any try at a mage-hunter class. So good job there!

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Intro, Entry and Flavor
Alright, so we're a primarily female anti-mage assassin organization who likes to stay on the down-low. Sweet. Not only that, but we eschew our psionic training to channel shadow-weavy anti-stuff. I imagine the Faerunian version of these folks are dedicated to Shar?

The entry requirements are pretty strict, but I imagine they're supposed to be. I like the inclusion of Spelltouched feats, I don't feel like they're used enough. Overall, excellent start!

Class Features
Alrighty, onto the meat!

Voidblade: I'm looking at free touch attacks, and I'm trying to restrain myself from instantly marking it off as "overpowered," mainly because I know that there's precedence in the Warlock and I've never found that to be overpowered. This ability looks fine.

Rip with Nothing: Hmm. Ignoring all DR, no problem there; Warlock again. Ignoring all hardness I'm a little iffy about. I guess it depends on how often it would come up, but a clever player could probably make great use out of that. Slicing through support beams and walls like butter...

Trapfinding: While I'm assuming this stems from their need to get around magical traps and whatnot, it feels out of place to me.

Absent Body: When it shows the Voidblade as "someone else," is that "someone else" just a generic person, or is it a random proximity thing, or what? I really like that idea, it's just vague. Otherwise, looks good to me.

Slice the Mind: That is a high Save DC. I'd suggest a 15 + Class Level + X Modifier, at most. Or, perhaps more appropriately, 10 + Class Level + X Modifier + Level of Highest Spell Slot Target Has Prepared/Known.

As for that stat damage, most casters need an ability score of 10 + Spell Level to cast spells, so succeeding on the save may be worse for them, as they suddenly lose access to two levels of spells rather than a few slots.

Gaining Temp HP is no problem, though.

Dispelling Strike: Classic. No problems here.

Shed Spells: Very nice, very useful. I like it.

Omnipresent Nothingness: I think the name's a little over-zealous for what amounts to "chucking a sword," but I like it. I don't see too many problems arising from this. You may want to add in that the voidblade needs line of sight and line of effect to the target; I know it's included in the rules for throwing a mindblade, but just for clarity's sake.

Bite the Soul: So, the weapon now inflicts 2d6 HP damage, 1d2 stat damage, and inflicts a negative level, as a touch attack, on every hit. I'm a little worried.

Hungering Blade: See above. Daaaaaang.

Vampiric Blade: I'm actually going to skip this one and post my review under the Devour the Soul header.

Ripper's Gift: I don't see a problem with this ability as a per-day mechanic, but I'm also not sure what it's precedence is. I don't feel like it fits the class, fluff-wise.

Armor of Absence: I don't see a listed action to activate this ability. Otherwise, it looks very good!

Consuming Blade: See Devour the Soul.

Devour the Soul: OK, lemme get this straight: As a melee (or ranged) touch attack, the Voidblade deals 9d6 points of HP damage, plus Strength modifier, plus enhancement bonus, plus weapon properties, ignores all DR and Hardness, plus deals 1 point of Con, 1d2 points of Stat damage, and 1d4 negative levels, on every hit. And crits on an 18-20, at which point it does triple damage.

I know you're taking on wizards and their ilk here, but seriously, whoa. Maybe some of these powers could be reduced to "affects spellcasters only" or you need to charge them like the Dispelling Strike ability. Or even, when you consume spells you can use them to power these class features (actually, I'd say go with that one).

One With Naught: Not a bad capstone, I tell ya'. Provides a nice little finisher to the class.

Overall
I feel like there are a few things that definitely need changed,or at least tweaked. At the same time, the concept is solid, and the majority of the class is a very masterful piece of work. You get a thumbs-up from me, and two if you make just a few little tweaks and/or convince me that I'm wrong. Great Job!

[FlamingKobold]

Lord_Gareth: I looked over it and think it looks good. If you don't mind, I'd like to use it in a game. (The party is all spellcasters )

So I'm not sure which route I should take for the Hellfire Knight:

Warlock: These guys already have a connection to fiends or whatever, so the class would be a reasonable extension of that. Prereqs would be eldritch blast +2d6, Hideous Blow, BAB +4, and some new feats.

Generic Fighter Type: Sells their soul to the demons to get more power. Pretty simple concept and would work well with blackguard. Prereqs would be any evil, BAB +6, and some feats.

Gish: I think if it advance casting (specifically evocation, conjuration, necromancy and enchantment) while giving the caster good BAB and some form of spell channelling via sword ability, it could work. Prereqs would be BAB +3, ability to cast 2nd level spells (certain ones), skills, and some feats.

Thoughts?

[Xallace]

Gish: I think if it advance casting (specifically evocation, conjuration, necromancy and enchantment) while giving the caster good BAB and some form of spell channelling via sword ability, it could work. Prereqs would be BAB +3, ability to cast 2nd level spells (certain ones), skills, and some feats.

Why not a gish-warlock? Ability to cast lesser invocations, including hideous blow, BAB +3, Proficiency in Martial Weapon / Medium or Heavy Armor, sell your already-tainted soul to Hell for even more power.

[ErrantX]

Why not a gish-warlock? Ability to cast lesser invocations, including hideous blow, BAB +3, Proficiency in Martial Weapon / Medium or Heavy Armor, sell your already-tainted soul to Hell for even more power.

2nded. Make an improved Hideous Blow ability (blast shape/eldritch essence) that allows you to constantly add your eldritch blast damage as bonus to your melee attacks as hellfire, give it some very specific invocations like Wall of Hellfire, Summon Dreadsteed, and specifically say it advances your Warlock invocations at no more than 8/10.

-X

[FlamingKobold]

Alright, cool. Good idea. I don't think letting you use hideous blow (As hellfire) on every strike as full attack would be overpowered... But it might be.

[DragoonWraith]

Yeah... the internet is a filthy, filthy thing. Also, awesome. I'm stoked to see that. I love that discipline :)

-X

Wow, awesome, that makes me happy! Heh.

Anyway, going away for a week, so you'll all have to wait. Also, image I found has a "no derivative work" clause which might make it unusable, bleh. Asked the artist, but don't expect a yes.

[ErrantX]

Alright, cool. Good idea. I don't think letting you use hideous blow (As hellfire) on every strike as full attack would be overpowered... But it might be.

All I can say is Eldritch Glaive exists. It's fine. Make it happen, so long as it doesn't make your attacks touch attacks :) You're in no way over powered. A twinned maximized enervation, way more deadly.

-X

[Xallace]

Alright, cool. Good idea. I don't think letting you use hideous blow (As hellfire) on every strike as full attack would be overpowered... But it might be.

At the very least, make sure to remove the clause in Hideous Blow about it provoking AoOs. That way it's usable.

Also, you could be making the coolest Blackguard upgrade ever with this. I look forward to seeing it!

[Lord_Gareth]

And yea, Gareth did make edits, and they were righteous, for these edits did balance the level of power available to the PRESTIGE CLASS, and it was good.