Battlefield control?

[Samb]

What is it and how do you use it your advantage? I figured it is manipulating to battle ground to a setting that would benefit you, like a funnel when outnumbered or putting oppenents on lower ground so you can get bonuses from ranged attacks.

Can someone clear this up for me and direct me to some good powers/spells that achieve this and how they do so?

[Eldariel]

It's precisely what it sounds like: you modify the battlefield to your advantage. A spell like Wall of Stone in middle of your opponents' force allows you to deal with one group first and then the other, tremendously reducing the number of opponents attacking you at any one time. Solid Fog on a group of opponents keeps the group rather impotent for a good while. They can also block passage ways, narrow down area so enemies have to come face your melee 1-by-1 (preventing swarming), etc. Other forms of battlefield control include Reach Fighter tripping/Stand Stilling people so they can't get where they want and so on.

Simply put, you restrict opponent to minimize the number of opponents able to do meaningful actions and allowing you to take them out in smaller numbers. Also allows protecting weaker party members and such.

[golentan]

Well, it can be that (esp. at mid to low levels) but generally what it refers to is MAKING the battlefield favorable to you. A wizard using area of effect spells, or a fighter with a spiked chain serving as area denial for everything in reach.

I bet I've been ninja'd.

[Dr_Horrible]

It's like that, but those are the kinds of things you do in the real world without magic.

Battlefield control can be a lot of things.

Some spells commonly associated with it:

Solid Fog
Evard's Black Tentacles
Various Wall Spells
Web
Wall of Thorns

BC is often associated debuffing too, such as Glitterdust, ect.

[Darrin]

What is it and how do you use it your advantage? I figured it is manipulating to battle ground to a setting that would benefit you, like a funnel when outnumbered or putting oppenents on lower ground so you can get bonuses from ranged attacks.

Can someone clear this up for me and direct me to some good powers/spells that achieve this and how they do so?

Battlefield Control basically means creating an environment where your friendly units have an advantage and the enemy units are at a disadvantage. In a broad sense, you could say it includes any spell that isn't entirely direct damage or buffs/debuffs target creatures.

But it's more complicated than that, because there are some spells that combine battlefield control with damage and/or buffs/debuffs. Acid fog, for example, restricts movement and blocks line-of-sight, and also does direct damage. Glitterdust is used both to negate an enemy advantage (invisiblity, concealment) and to incur a negative status effect (blindness).

Battlefield Control can include:

* Creating terrain that puts the enemy at a disadvantage (grease, entangle, evard's black tentacles)

* Breaking Line-of-Sight and Line-of-Effect so that enemies either can't attack or have to attack the stronger units first (fog, smoke, wall of puppies, etc.)

* Reducing or preventing enemy units from moving (entangle, solid fog, wall of toenail clippings)

* Providing or denying cover, concealment, and vision conditions (invisibility, see invisibility, obscuring mist, wall of used kleenex, darkness, daylight).

* Promoting or discouraging certain types of attacks (entropic shield, protection from arrows, wind wall)

* Temperature control, energy effects/damage, weather conditions (ice storm, wall of flaming ducks, whirlwind)

* Spells that neutralize or break apart enemy formations, allowing friendly units to isolate and focus on more immediate threats (cause fear, solid fog, hypnotic pattern, Bigby's inappropriate groping)

* Creating physical objects, creatures, or illusions that the enemy has to deal with before they can attack any friendly units (flaming sphere, summon monster, minor image)

* Hitting multiple enemy units with status effects that put them at a disadvantage or force them to use resources instead of attacking (shaken, sickness, nausea, blindness, poison, crabs, skunky beer)

* What am I forgetting?

Basically, any spell that reduces, restricts, or forces an enemy units' tactical decisions can be considered battlefield control.

[Chronos]

wall of puppies ... wall of toenail clippings ... wall of used kleenex ... wall of flaming ducks ... Bigby's inappropriate groping ... crabs, skunky beer

Darrin, I think your copy of the Spell Compendium is a lot more... interesting... than most folks'.

[Ashdate]

Here's an example from a recent game I played where battlefield control = win.

Our level 11 party went up against a trio of powerful monsters. We had to deal with a Werewolf Cleric of indeterminate level (at least 7, he cast a level 4 spell), an advanced Winter Wolf (making it a Large creature) and the big baddie, a undead Goliath Shaman. There were a few zombie minions too. The battlefield was quite large, with the three big guys spread out over it.

In the first round, I cast Evard's Black Tentacles to snag the Werewolf Cleric and most of the minions. Sadly for my DM, he didn't prepare a single spell for the werewolf that it could cast while grappled.

Round 2 I used Freezing Fog to hold the Undead Goliath Shaman. The cold damage was a fruitless endeavor, but the limited movement and balance checks held him long enough for our damage dealers to gang up on the Winter Wolf (who was pretty dangerous what with it's free Trip attacks).

My two spells locked the other threats up long enough to perform a divide and conquer strategy. Dr_Horrible and Darrin have listed some great options above, but I'd also recommend 'Charm' spells and Dominate Person.

One dominated monster is worth two in the Otiluke's Resilient Sphere! (okay I'm making stuff up now)

- Eddie

[TheOOB]

Really, anything that makes that changes the scope of the battle so your side has the advantage can be considered battlefield control. The two most basic tactics are a) Create a situation where your ranged attackers can attack melee enemies without fear of reprisal(walls, slowing, ect) and b) separating the enemy group so you don't have to fight them all at once.

[Nate the Snake]

Darrin, I think your copy of the Spell Compendium is a lot more... interesting... than most folks'.

He must be using the Sigil Prep version.

If not, I want to see those spells in Homebrew.

[Samb]

i kind of get it now. So it doesn't have that much to do with terrain but how the forces are organized. Dominate will subtract an enemy while adding a friend, hence battle control?

Thanks everyone!

[lsfreak]

From my understanding of what's generally meant by battlefield control, Darrin was using a slightly broader interpretation than most people (mainly with making multiple people sickened/whatever). Most people would call battlefield control stuff that makes it so enemies can't move, don't want to move, or are separated. Wall spells, fog spells, changing the ground into mud or molten glass, webbing/greasing things, and so on are usually termed battlefield control spells. They deal specifically with how people move around and/or perceive the battlefield.

Things like dominate are save-or-loses, because if you don't save you lose (though it could be argued domination is effectively save-or-die). Nausea, blindness, and so on are usually save-or-suck/save-or-lose.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Battlefield Control is, in essence, being able to manipulate how your opponents are able to attack you.

If you cast a Black Tentacles at opponents, tangling them up so the party beatstick can take them one at a time rather than all at once, that is battlefield control

If you cast Solid Fog, which slows down opponents, allowing you to split them up, that is battlefield control.

If you are a 'Gattling Tripper' who makes all opponents within 30' of you fall down, that is battlefield control.

If you are using Dominates to turn enemies into temporary allies, that is battlefield control.

Basically, anything other than buffs, out of combat utility, and blastomancy/Save or Die effects can generally be considered battlefield control.

[Dr_Horrible]

Battlefield Control is, in essence, being able to manipulate how your opponents are able to attack you.

If you cast a Black Tentacles at opponents, tangling them up so the party beatstick can take them one at a time rather than all at once, that is battlefield control

If you cast Solid Fog, which slows down opponents, allowing you to split them up, that is battlefield control.

If you are a 'Gattling Tripper' who makes all opponents within 30' of you fall down, that is battlefield control.

If you are using Dominates to turn enemies into temporary allies, that is battlefield control.

Basically, anything other than buffs, out of combat utility, and blastomancy/Save or Die effects can generally be considered battlefield control.

Except you basically declared that debuffing doesn't exist. Debuffing is actually a separate category from battlefield control. If it isn't then killing people is battlefield control too.

[TheOOB]

A broad definition would be anything that is designed to give your side an advantage over the other side in the fight(as opposed to trying to defeat the other side) is battlefield control.

[Valentyne]

So my 10 foot tall wall of dead, roasted, orcs doesnt count as battlefield control? humph!

[ericgrau]

Debuffing is still battlefield control that temporarily takes part of the enemies out of the fight, or partly takes them out of the fight for the whole fight. Killing is only technically "battlefield control".

There have been plenty of good magical examples, so I'll add some martial ones: grapple, trip, disarm, stun, sunder, bull rush. Overrun can qualify too if it knocks the opponent over, but it's more like tactical movement. All of these disable or partly disable enemies. They tend to be single target, but you get 1 per attack so it is possible to get multiple per round. They also tend to trigger AoO's when and improved trip even gives you an attack back right away. Various weapons give bonuses or otherwise aid these attacks. Some items like nets, tanglefoot bags, smokesticks and various magic items can be used for battlefield control as well.