[3.5] An Armoured Eldritch Knight - Suicide?

[Dogmantra]

I have a character concept knocking around for an Eldritch knight that wears armour. Yup. Not Cheesy armour of 100% ASF reduction, just plain old armour. I only really have one way to pull it off, taking the still spell feat and casting all spells stilled, but that would cut off 9th level spell access, unless I could get a reduced level.

So, my question to you, dear playgrounders, is "How would I go about making an armoured Eldritch Knight that doesn't suck?" I don't want it to be hyper-optimised, because my group is pretty new to the mechanics (minus myself), but I'd like it to have 9th level arcane casting and no chance of ASF.

[Eldariel]

Take 1 level in Spellsword [Complete Warrior] - one level doesn't impede your casting any more, and give you the ability to ignore up to 10% of arcane spell failure. Then get a specifically built caster's armor (say, Githcraft [Dungeon Master's Guide II] Twilight [Magic Item Compendium] Mithril [Dungeon Master's Guide] Breastplate/Chain Shirt) and you'll have no arcane spell failure.

Hell, a Spellsword could use Githcraft (it's like Masterwork - you gotta go get it from the Astral Plane from the Gith though) Twilight (+1 special ability) Mithril (material) Full-Plate provided that he has Medium Armor Proficiency (which he has since he was able to enter Spellsword - it requires armor proficiencies, so you've got a Fighter-level or something).


For Core-only, Mithril Chain Shirt only has 10% arcane spell failure, but it's still harsh. Really, Core isn't good for casters in armor - only later with supplements did they realize that casting in armor doesn't break anything and added the means to do so. So look outside Core to the books I suggested if you want to pursue this idea.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

You could just snag spells with no Somatic components, though at that point you're better off being a Sorcerer. There's also a dragon feat that reduces any one metamagic by one level, see if you can get it houseruled to reduce Still Spell to 0(it normally cannot reduce below +1).

Or you could use Incantrix levels.

[Telonius]

Fighter1/Wizard1-6/Spellsword1/Eldritch Knight 1-10/(Other class 2)

Or, play a Duskblade. The spells aren't nearly as powerful, but they get the ability to cast in medium armor with no penalty.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I think that the character concept was precisely NOT to do that.

OP: I did it with my first character in NWN2 and it worked pretty well...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

What sources are available?

As was mentioned, a one-level dip in SpellSword is good for a 10% reduction in ASF. This lets you wear a Mithral Chain Shirt for free, without needing the Twilight enhancement.

If you are wanting something bigger, then we've got to dance around a bit.

Full Plate has an ASF of 35%. That's pretty steep, but let's see if we can pull it off.

First off, we go with a level dip in Spellsword, Mithral, and Twilight. That gives us a 30% reduction. That still leaves us with 5%.

Then we use Thistledown Padding. It increases your Armor Check Penalty by 1 (like you are going to be doing any tumbling anyways), but it does reduce the ASF by 5%.

So there you go. It's not Core, but it is Full Plate without ASF.

[Eldariel]

First off, we go with a level dip in Spellsword, Mithral, and Twilight. That gives us a 30% reduction. That still leaves us with 5%.

Just use Githcraft.


That said, if you want to wear a non-Mithril armor, you'll probably be best off dipping a level in Spellthief [CAdventurer], take Master Spellthief-feat [CScoundrel] and Battle Caster [CArcane] and you can wear medium armor.

[sonofzeal]

I did this once, with a Diviner. See, most Div spells can be cast well in advances, when you don't have to be wearing armor. Then you'd suit up and use a combination of Still Spell, Wands, and somatic-less spells in combat. Worked pretty well, actually.

[Crow]

There are a lot of good spells with no somatic components. Especially the high level ones. You shouldn't have much of a problem using still spell for those that do, though you may find you have trouble filling up your lowest level slots.

[Darrin]

So, my question to you, dear playgrounders, is "How would I go about making an armoured Eldritch Knight that doesn't suck?" I don't want it to be hyper-optimised, because my group is pretty new to the mechanics (minus myself), but I'd like it to have 9th level arcane casting and no chance of ASF.

Dragon #355 has an alternate class feature for fighters called "Armored Savant". You give up your 1st level fighter bonus feat to ignore the weight of your armor for calulating encumbrance and you treat your armor as one category lighter. Combine this with mithril or glassteel fullplate (or any other heavy armor), and you've got fullplate as light armor. Now dip into a class that ignores ASF in light armor, such as bard, duskblade, warmage, or warlock.

There's also the Battle Caster feat in Complete Arcane, which allows you to ignore ASF up to medium armor. Unfortunately, you have to be able to ignore ASF in light armor before you can take it, and there's no feat that grants this ability. You must get it from a class such as bard, duskblade, warmage, or warlock first. The problem here is unless you're using Sublime Chord, Ur Priest, or Nar Demonbinder to rebuild your spellcasting, a dip into any of these classes is going to either ding up your caster level or BAB.

Another option is to use a combination of special materials and templates to reduce the ASF down to zero or within the "ignore 10%" from a Spellsword dip. These include:

Mithril special material, -10% (Core)
Twilight armor property, -10% (PHBII)
Thistledown suit, -5% (Races of the Wild)
Githcraft template, -5% (DMGII)
Feycraft template, -5% (DMGII)

(I'm not sure if Feycraft can be combined with githcraft... ask a githyanki if he knows any faeries and let me know how he responds.)

Fullplate has a 35% ASF, so mithril + twilight + thistledown + one-level dip into Spellsword brings ASF down to zero. Assuming you can combine githcraft with feycraft, you can add those and skip the dip into Spellsword.

The highest ASF on any armor is 60% on Mountain Plate (Races of Stone), although you can get the same AC bonus from Mechanus Gear (Planar Handbook) with a slightly more manageable 50% ASF. Using everything above on top of a 3-level dip into Spellsword would bring the ASF on Mechanus Gear down to zero.

Some sample Gish builds...

"Classic"
Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight +7
BAB: +17
Caster Level: 18

(Note: you can substitute Knight Phantom instead of Eldritch Knight to get a PrC with more class abilities if you're willing to spend a feat on Extend Spell)

"Sublime Gish"
Bard 7/Fighter 2/Eldritch Knight 1/Sublime Chord 2/Eldritch Knight +8
BAB: +17
Caster Level: 17

"Sublime Crusader JPM"
Crusader 2/Bard 6/Jade Phoenix Mage 1/Spellsword 1/Sublime Chord 1/JPM +4/Abjurant Champion 5
BAB: +17
Caster Level: 16

"Sublime Duskblade Skald"
Duskblade 6/Warrior Skald 1/Duskblade +3/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 3
BAB: +19
Caster Level: 18

(Note: This one may require Skill Knowledge, Able Learner, Flexible Mind, Nymph's Kiss, or quite a bit of other chicancery to make the skill requirements for Sublime Chord)

"Sublime Battle Howler" (Race: Orc or Half-Orc)
Bard 3/Fighter 2/Battle Howler of Grummsh 4/Eldritch Knight 1/Sublime Chord 2/Eldritch Knight +8
BAB: +18
Caster Level: 17

"Sublime Druidzilla"
Bard 2/Druid 3/Green Whisperer 2/Arcane Hierophant 3/Sublime Chord 1/Arcane Heirophant +7/Green Whisperer +2
BAB: +13
Caster Level: Bard/SC 17, Druid 17
9th level sorcerer spells, 9th level druid spells, 13th level Wild Shape and Animal Companion.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

With one level of Spellsword you can wear Mithril Breastplate with a Thistledown Suit (RotW) and have 0% ASF. Or, you can wear Mithril Full Plate with a Thistledown Suit and make it +1 Twilight (PH2 with Duskblade) and have 0% ASF.

[Keld Denar]

If you get your gish casting from Suel Archanamach, you get 10% reduction from that, and since you typically take a level of Spellsword in most SA builds, thats -20%.

A SA build might look like Paladin4/Duskblade2/Suel4/Spellsword1/AbjChamp5/DragonDisciple4

for maximal Cha synergy. 5th level casting from Transmutation, Abjuration, Illusion, and Divination. No 9th level casting, but has its own flavor and 18/20 casting.

[Duff]

Another way to get armored casting without a level of Spelltheif is to take Urban savant from cityscape

[Thurbane]

Isn't there a PrC that allows you to cast arcane spells without somatic components by scribing runes or glyphs? Geometer or somesuch?

[avr]

Simpler than any of the above - look at the Battle Sorcerer variant. No PrC's necessary, you can wave a sword, cast spells and wear light armour from first level.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...BattleSorcerer

[MisterSaturnine]

Simpler than any of the above - look at the Battle Sorcerer variant. No PrC's necessary, you can wave a sword, cast spells and wear light armour from first level.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...BattleSorcerer

I think the OP is looking for a spellcaster who wears heavy armor, not light, but with the Battle Caster feat, you could cast with 0% ASF chance wearing mithril fullplate. Also, just one light or one-handed weapon is a little meager, but I suppose this could be alleviated by taking a single level of fighter.

[Crow]

I'm playing a battlesorcerer right now. So far from 1 to 15. It's pretty solid. I lean heavily on heighten spell, and since you don't have the spells known to rule every encounter yourself, I spend a lot of time debuffing enemies or buffing my party before wading into combat. She uses a longsword two-handed instead of a greatsword or such due to the wonky proficiency battle sorcerers get.

It's a good team-oriented class, since you have the tricks to be powerful, but not so many as to make your party obsolete.

[Dogmantra]

I think the OP is looking for a spellcaster who wears heavy armor, not light, but with the Battle Caster feat, you could cast with 0% ASF chance wearing mithril fullplate. Also, just one light or one-handed weapon is a little meager, but I suppose this could be alleviated by taking a single level of fighter.

That I was.
I suppose I could get to medium armour with a battle sorc and the Battle Caster feat.

I'm just looking for options at the moment, and the simpler, the better.

Or you could use Incantrix levels.

What book is Incantrix in?

As for sources, any SRD, obviously, and I've been meaning to get some more books, so anything that would be useful, I'll take a look at when deciding which to get.

Thanks for the help so far.

[Zaq]

Play a Wu Jen, and use all your spell secrets to apply Still Spell to the spells you anticipate casting the most. Add in metamagic school focus, sudden still, and you can still just about whatever you need to if you plan in advance.

Also, there ARE a good handful of non-somatic spells out there, but you have to look for 'em.