Caster Paladin

[Duff]

Are there any PrCs which work well with a Paldin focused on casting (more than most Pali's). I like the look of the feat giving them swift action castings but most "full caster" classes assume Cleric so would badly nerf a Pal.
Most classes which seem intended for a Paladin who uses spells have their own spell progression and so aren't Paladin spells

[Nohwl]

knight of the raven from expedition to castle ravenloft might be an option. it has 9/10 casting and full bab.

[Ashdate]

How about Divine Crusader (Complete Divine, pg 33)?

Your BAB is slightly worse (+7 over 10 levels instead of +10) but you get more spells/day than straight Paladin, and can enter at 8th level, getting 9th level spells at 18th level (something a normal Paladin can't do).

.. of course your 'spell list' is essentially a single cleric domain list (meaning, one spell/lvl), but there's some good domains out there, depending on which ones you can get access to.

The Protection domain for example, rocks. You get Antimagic Field, Repulsion, and finally Prismatic Sphere. Can't complain about that :) I like the War domain too.

- Eddie

[Olo Demonsbane]

What I would use is the Prestige Paladin from Unearthed Arcana, which lets you cast as a slightly less functional cleric with better combat and all of the paladin spells.

[Duff]

Thanks Ash but the classes which have their own spell list don't have "paladin spells" to go with the feat

[Keld Denar]

There is Sword of the Arcane Order. That lets you memorize some wizard spells in your paladin slots. Unfortunately, there isn't much in the way expanding the number of spells per day that you have other than hyperinflating your wisdom score. If you consider this, it would be wise to invest in the Serenity. That would key all of your other paladin abilities off your wisdom as well, making that a worthwhile investment. Regardless, a paladin would be wisest to invest in "gish" spells like Wraithstrike and Whirling Blade.

Best of luck!

[CthulhuM]

There's not really much you can do to enhance paladin spellcasting, beyond the battle blessing feat itself. There are a few specific paladin spells that stand out though. I would recommend a lance-wielding power-attacking mounted combat build, and once you get 3rd level spells you can swift-cast Find the Gap at the beginning of every battle, making your first (and only, since you're mounted charging) attack each round a touch attack. Power attack for full and enjoy your 150+ damage attacks.

[Sinfire Titan]

How about Divine Crusader (Complete Divine, pg 33)?

Your BAB is slightly worse (+7 over 10 levels instead of +10) but you get more spells/day than straight Paladin, and can enter at 8th level, getting 9th level spells at 18th level (something a normal Paladin can't do).

.. of course your 'spell list' is essentially a single cleric domain list (meaning, one spell/lvl), but there's some good domains out there, depending on which ones you can get access to.

The Protection domain for example, rocks. You get Antimagic Field, Repulsion, and finally Prismatic Sphere. Can't complain about that :) I like the War domain too.

- Eddie

Combine this idea with the Ordained Champion in CC, and you have a decent backup caster.


Alternatively: Hexblade 2/CC Spell-less Paladin of Tyranny 2/Crusader 2/Ur-Priest 2/Divine Oracle 1/Ordained Champion 5/Ruby Knight Vindicator 5 makes for a very decent Divine Gish. 9th level spells, 7th level Maneuvers, and a ton of tricks to work with.

[Darrin]

There is Sword of the Arcane Order. That lets you memorize some wizard spells in your paladin slots.

Unfortunately, it's not clear if spells prepared via Sword of the Arcane Order are still considered "Paladin" spells, and thus could be used with Battle Blessing. The text of the feat seems to suggest they still count as "wizard" spells, but does not specify if they are still considered arcane or divine spells. So you need a DM ruling to know whether Battle Blessing will work or not. If the DM says yes they still count as paladin spells, then you're cooking with gas. If he says no, they're arcane, then there are a variety of PrC options that could be interesting, such as Mystic Theurge, Sublime Chord, etc.

I was also looking at how do you optimize a Paladin caster with Battle Blessing, but the Paladin spellcasting progresses way too slowly and there's no way to speed this up (unlike, say, the Mystic Ranger variant). Prestige Paladin doesn't really work either, since you're not casting paladin spells.

There may be a way around this, but it requires another DM call. The Holy Liberator and Pious Templar can get spells faster than the standard paladin, and they use the paladin spell list, but the text isn't clear if these spells would count as "Paladin" spells or Holy Liberator/Pious Templar spells. So, again, check how your DM feels about using Battle Blessing with one of these PrCs.

[jcsw]

Alternatively:Spell-less Paladin of Tyranny 2...Ur-Priest 2...Ruby Knight Vindicator 5

I'm pretty sure Ur Priest makes you fall from half of the other classes.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I'm pretty sure Ur Priest makes you fall from half of the other classes.

Not if your cause as a PoT is Smiting the Gods. RKV I don't think you can fall from, either.

[Keld Denar]

I was also looking at how do you optimize a Paladin caster with Battle Blessing, but the Paladin spellcasting progresses way too slowly and there's no way to speed this up (unlike, say, the Mystic Ranger variant). Prestige Paladin doesn't really work either, since you're not casting paladin spells.

If you do Paladin4/Crusader1/RKV10/X5, you can get nearly full Paladin casting, and Battle Blessing + Divine Impetus means you can cast 2 paladin spells per round. Technically, you could have cast ALL of your paladin spells, but the sage came down kinda hard on RKV and said that Divine Impetus could only be used once per round. Whether or not you agree with what the sage says is up to you and your DM.

And that really is an interesting note about Paladins and Sword of the Arcane Order. Unfortunately, Paladins don't get 3rd level spells until level 11, too late to really take advantage of full or nearly full paladin casting leading into full Sublime Chord progression. Otherwise, you could totally do it with the feat that gives Paladins Inspire Courage. Initiate of Millie, or something like that, IIRC.

So close, yet so far.

[Chronos]

Unfortunately, Paladins don't get 3rd level spells until level 11, too late to really take advantage of full or nearly full paladin casting leading into full Sublime Chord progression.

That doesn't look like a big problem to me, since you can't qualify for Sublime Chord until level 10 anyway, thanks to the skill prereq. But I think that SC requires 3rd level arcane spells... Do Sword of the Arcane Order spells count as arcane or divine?

[Keld Denar]

Hmmm, looking over Champions of Valor, it does appear that they count as arcane spells...Interesting. Now, its crossing the streams a bit, but if you used either the Cresent Moon or Harmonious Knight Paladin Sub levels from Champions of Valor (or Champions of Valor web enhancement), you would pick up Inspire Courage. Granted, Sublime Chord calls out that it requires the Bardic Music class feature, but this is pretty much close enough. Now, unfortunately, those 2 ACFs require you to worship Selune and Milil respectively, while Sword of the Arcane Order requires you to worship Mystra or Azuth. We're gonna ignore that for a second, and pretend we aren't playing in FR...

I'm thinking...

Human
1 Harmonious Knight Paladin1 Power Attack, Melodic Casting
2 Paladin2
3 Harmonious Knight Paladin3 Song of the Heart
4 Paladin4
5 Paladin5
6 Paladin6 Divine Might
7 Paladin7
8 Paladin8
9 Paladin9 Sword of the Arcane Order
10 Paladin10
11 Paladin11
12 Sublime Chord1 Battle Blessing
13 Sublime Chord2
14 Abjurant Champion1
15 Abjurant Champion2 Awesome Smite
16 Abjurant Champion3
17 Abjurant Champion4
18 Abjurant Champion5
19 Spellsword1
20 ???

Now, skills would be pretty tough, given how many you need to make this work. Still, great Cha synergy, 8-9th level SC casting, 18-19 BAB, Inspire Courage as a 13th level Bard, and a goodly amount of HP.

Of course, it requires some pretty liberal reading of the rules, but meh, it happens.

Alternatively, you could go HK Paladin4/Sorcerer6/SC2/yadda yadda or Paladin2/Sorcerer7/EK1/SC2/AbjChamp5/EK+3...but those aren't as fun!

[Darrin]

And that really is an interesting note about Paladins and Sword of the Arcane Order. Unfortunately, Paladins don't get 3rd level spells until level 11, too late to really take advantage of full or nearly full paladin casting leading into full Sublime Chord progression. Otherwise, you could totally do it with the feat that gives Paladins Inspire Courage. Initiate of Millie, or something like that, IIRC.

3rd level arcane spells is easy enough to get around. Paladin 6/Suel Arcanamach 4 has 3rd level arcane spells at ECL 10. Fiend Slayer (Dragon #287) or Psi-Hunter (Dragon #281) might also work, particularly the latter since you get 3rd level spells with a 3-level dip. For example:

Duskblade 1/Paladin 4/Psi-Hunter 3/Warrior Skald 1/Eldritch Knight 1/Sublime Chord 2/EK +8
BAB: +19
Caster Level: 13 (9th level spells)

With Sword of the Arcane Order providing arcane spells, you can go Paladin 5/* and pick up your mount. With Champion of Milil you can skip the Warrior Skald... maybe slip in a level of Ranger or Factotum to help with skill points.

You can also use Earth Spell or Improved Krau Sigil to bump your 2nd level Paladin/Sword of Arcane Order spells up to 3rd level. Paladin 8/EK 2/SC 2/EK +8 might work that way. This could also make Fiend Slayer a three-level dip or Psi-Hunter a one-level dip.

Now, unfortunately, those 2 ACFs require you to worship Selune and Milil respectively, while Sword of the Arcane Order requires you to worship Mystra or Azuth.

Synad or Multi-headed template. Each brain/head worships a different deity.

19 Spellsword1
20 ???

20 Dragon Slayer probably... +1 BAB, +1 CL. Requires two feats, but Iron Will can be had via Otyugh Hole.