Worst PrC EVAR contest (accepting nominations)

[Darth Stabber]

Thats right Nominate the worst PrCs in the game for special recognition

Rules of nonimation -
-No truenammer PrCs, their issues are with their system, not the PrCs themselves.
-Published by WotC
-Must be mechanically bad, Good yard stick, would you rather take an odd lvl in fighter or another lvl in this.
-If it is a good dip, it doesn't really qualify, looking for PrCs that are just terrible from 1-10.

First Nominee
Witch Slayer - melee PrC that if focused on fighting binders and possessed creatures, Blech

[FinalJustice]

From the top of my head:

Tempest - Screwing a TWFer even more? Rather keep taking Fighter for the feats.

Arcane Archer & Dragon Disciple - No caster progression? Really?

Shining Blade of Heironeous - Rather keep the sluggish paladin spell progression than spend 5 levels to light my beatstick 3x/day.

Rainbow Servant - Standard Sorcerer entry, following the FAQ recommendation of keeping it 6/10, sucks beyond measure. You give up four caster levels of your already slowed down progression to get some domains and the hability to add a few cleric spells to your list? Please.

[Baalthazaq]

Are we only doing worst as in weak?

Otherwise I vote Radiant Servant of Pelor simply because if you have the prerequisites, there is never a reason to not take it. It's just Cleric... with more. You lose nothing.

[Kurald Galain]

Greenstone Adept. Because hey, who needs a con score anyway?

Rainbow Servant - Standard Sorcerer entry,

You're not supposed to enter it as a sorcerer. It becomes pretty interesting when played with a Beguiler or Warmage. You mention "a few cleric spells" but that statement overlooks that you get all cleric spells.

[Darth Stabber]

Otherwise I vote Radiant Servant of Pelor simply because if you have the prerequisites, there is never a reason to not take it. It's just Cleric... with more. You lose nothing.

Actually RSoP has a d6 hit die as opposed to d8, now this means very little, but strictly speaking you lose an average of 1hp per lvl.

Okay, so still no compelling reason not to take it. The reason that I think it got printed was to give people a reason to make clerics of pelor, because before that class saw print I never saw anyone pick pelor as a diety, not even NG characters with nothing divine on their sheet except the deity blank. Pelor is supposed to be one of the major gods for humans, so they printed a fairly buff PrC to give him the edge he needed to get back his flock.

And yes the point is to nominate mechanically bad PrCs.

[FinalJustice]

You're not supposed to enter it as a sorcerer. It becomes pretty interesting when played with a Beguiler or Warmage. You mention "a few cleric spells" but that statement overlooks that you get all cleric spells.

Yeah, I am aware of the potential of the RS. What I was referring to was entering it as a regular Sorcerer, so that you can pick up cleric spells (and swap to cleric spells) at a loss of four caster levels. I have the feeling that the standard Sorcerer entry is the actual intention of the class, rather than the whole 'spontaneous casting all the Cleric spell list' of Beguiler or Warmage entry.

Edit: Ninja'd, adding quote for better clarity.

[Faleldir]

Cancer Mage, not necessarily because of mechanics (I never played it), but because the name is misleading. It's not a spellcaster who gives people cancer, it's a filthy hobo with some once-per-days that can be done better with magic.

[Albonor]

entropomancer still has a special place in my heart: give up 5 caster levels in exchange for doing 7d6 of damage and controling a specific artifact if you find one?

Please.

Otherwise, what is so bad with a tempest? No penalty to hit with two weapons, you get a few bonuses to AC, weapon feats apply to both weapons, tw-spring attack. It synergises amazingly well in a fighter8-exoticweaponmaster2- revenant blade 5- tempest 5 build. suuuuuure you need to be an elf....

[jcsw]

Are we only doing worst as in weak?

Otherwise I vote Radiant Servant of Pelor simply because if you have the prerequisites, there is never a reason to not take it. It's just Cleric... with more. You lose nothing.

Planar Shepard.

[Mushroom Ninja]

Greenstone Adept. Because hey, who needs a con score anyway?

I'm going to have to second that nomination.

[Ryuuk]

Witch Slayer - melee PrC that if focused on fighting binders and possessed creatures, Blech

I'd just like to speak up of for the Witchslayer. Its smite might be situational, but that's not its only class feature. Slippery Mind and Mettle are decent, but its capstone is what really seals it for me. Once every five rounds, block a creature's Supernatural, Spell Like and Spellcasting abilities for 1 round as a swift action. The DC's not bad either, 20+Cha at level 10. If you're up against something that depends on magic and this lands (and even if it didn't, it was just a swift action), then 1 round is really all it takes.

[Draken]

Witch Slayer is not really bad.

Witchborn Binder (MoI), on the other hand. Is terrible.

Incarnum Blades also add nothing to your character.

Green Star Adept is also bad in ways that shouldn't exist (You not only are losing your constitution score, you are also reducing your dexterity score)

But ever since I read the Necromancer Handbook in Wizard's forum I have special spite reserved for the Yathrinshee, possibly the worst dual caster ever made (if it can be called a dual caster).

[JackMage666]

My favorite is Survivor, from Savage Species - Sure, you get Improved Evasions, Improved Uncanny Dodge, DR 5/-, and all good saves for 5 levels, but you also get no spell progression, 0 BAB, a d6 HD (which kinda defeats the purpose.) and you don't even get to add any new class skills to your list (and have the lovely 2+Int/level anyway.)

The only thing I could see as fun with this class is a Commoner 1/Surviver 5, for that Commoner that just doesn't die.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

True Necromancer. I want to stab whoever created it in the eye with a FORK. Mystic Theurge should never be a better option.

[potatocubed]

The Greenstone Adept is humungously bad. You lose Con, Dex, spellcasting progression... you gain... a pleasing viridian hue?

I also think the Fochlucan Lyrist is pretty dreadful. You have to multiclass egregiously to qualify for it (bard/rogue/druid, right?) and then you gain... nothing you couldn't have gained better by staying in whatever class you were focussing on.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Undead Hunter was pretty bad, if I remember right... No insentive at all about killing undeads...

[Baalthazaq]

The Greenstone Adept is humungously bad. You lose Con, Dex, spellcasting progression... you gain... a pleasing viridian hue?

I also think the Fochlucan Lyrist is pretty dreadful. You have to multiclass egregiously to qualify for it (bard/rogue/druid, right?) and then you gain... nothing you couldn't have gained better by staying in whatever class you were focussing on.

That was going to be my vote if it was for mechanically bad, Fochlucan.

[Myrmex]

Exotic Weapon Master from 3.0's Master's of the Wild.

Requirements: +7 BAB, 3 exotic weapon proficiencies
What you gain over 5 levels:
Proficiency with all exotic weapons
The ability to craft an improvised melee or thrown weapon that you take no penalties with, that does 2d6 damage.
Full BAB

These abilities are gains slowly. So when you are tenth level in this class, you get the ability to sit down for an hour and fashion an improvised throwing weapon out of twigs and rocks.

The sheer inanity of this class is overwhelming. Compare that to the Hexer in the same book, which has full divine progression, full BAB, and a bunch of uses of eyebite like effects.

What the hell is wrong with the people publishing these books?

[Texas Jedi]

Exotic Weapon Master from 3.0's Master's of the Wild.

Requirements: +7 BAB, 3 exotic weapon proficiencies
What you gain over 5 levels:
Proficiency with all exotic weapons
The ability to craft an improvised melee or thrown weapon that you take no penalties with, that does 2d6 damage.
Full BAB

These abilities are gains slowly. So when you are tenth level in this class, you get the ability to sit down for an hour and fashion an improvised throwing weapon out of twigs and rocks.

The sheer inanity of this class is overwhelming. Compare that to the Hexer in the same book, which has full divine progression, full BAB, and a bunch of uses of eyebite like effects.

What the hell is wrong with the people publishing these books?

That and the Exotic Weapons Master had one of the ugliest drawings showing the PrC in a book full of ugly drawings.

The first attempt at a Bladesinger was horrible. I remember just reading it and saying that is crap. They recovered a little when they re-released in one of the Forgotten Realms books. I don't remember specifics but I think it gave you full BaB and the ability to use a sword while casting. I will have to pull the book out to truly remember how much it sucked.

[arguskos]

I've voting for the Yathrinshee and the Greenstar Adept, classes SO bad that Hell itself spat them out and said "DA-YUM!! This **** be FAIL!"

I mean, REALLY, the Yathrinshee is the WORSE dual-progression PrC ever made, and dual-progression is typically terrible to begin with. Greenstar makes you PAY for the privilege of sucking harder than an Oreck vacuum.

[Ascension]

My favorite is Survivor, from Savage Species - Sure, you get Improved Evasions, Improved Uncanny Dodge, DR 5/-, and all good saves for 5 levels, but you also get no spell progression, 0 BAB, a d6 HD (which kinda defeats the purpose.) and you don't even get to add any new class skills to your list (and have the lovely 2+Int/level anyway.)

The only thing I could see as fun with this class is a Commoner 1/Surviver 5, for that Commoner that just doesn't die.

I was also going to say Survivor, but really it's just a gimmick to create a more durable commoner. I can see no reason for anyone to even think about employing one in a game ever. I think the bad PrC crown should go to something that at least looks like a good option initially.

[lord_khaine]

i vote for Arcane Archer, i personaly find it worse then GTA.

[sonofzeal]

Agreed that Witch Slayer is fine. It gets a lot of bonuses against possessed creatures, and that's pretty darn situational, but the rest of the class is solid enough.

So yeah, here's the tier system for PrCs that I've been putting together this last month. For the lazy, here's the list of the worst PrCs we've covered so far....



Acolyte of the skin
Apostle of Peace (not broken, but blatantly contradictory text on material possessions)
Arcane Archer
Blighter
Cavestalker (Druid entry)
Defiant
Dirgesinger
Duelist
Entropomancer
Evangelist
Eye of Lolth
Fochlucan Lyrist (unless Evasion is gained without dips)
Green Star Adept
Incarnum Blade
Insidious Corrupter (Arcane Spellcaster entry)
Lifedrinker
Master of the Unseen Hand
Metamind (higher with abuse of the capstone)
Mindbender (except for 1 level dips)
Ollam
Reaping Mauler
Spinemeld Warrior
True Necromancer
Wavekeeper
Witchborn Binder
Wonderworker
Yathrinshee

[Starbuck_II]

Greenstone Adept. Because hey, who needs a con score anyway?

He said dip classes no count:

Greenstone is a dip class: take a level for some DR/Str/NA: really who finishes it?

[Starscream]

Blighter, hands down. You don't get your daily spells unless you destroy a bunch of plants. It even makes a point of saying that places like deserts and ice floes do not count.

Gods forbid you're adventuring in any terrain that doesn't have tons of vegetation around. No caves, dungeons, cities. Nothing from Sandstorm, Frostburn, Underdark or Stormwrack (unless you can get to a ton of seaweed).

And what do you get in return for this huge, possibly campaign-halting sacrifice? Not a whole heck of a lot. You can turn into skeletal animals and talk to dead ones. Yeah, that's right, you can converse with roadkill. Whoop-de-doo.

[Keld Denar]

I'm gonna vote again for Shining Blade. Worse than a Soulknife, your primary class feature is "has a weapon". To get it, you have to give up 1/2 casting?!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and its a standard action to activate your weapon, but guess how long it lasts? Not freakin long enough. And...what do you get? A shocking weapon. Shocking isn't really that good. Demons are immune to electricity, and most devils get Resistance5+ at least. Granted, Holy is slightly better, but think about it. If you had continued progressing in Paladin or Cleric, you could spend that same standard action to FREAKIN CAST ALIGN WEAPON, or better yet, Bless Weapon. Maybe if this class had its own fast Paladin progression like Pious Templar, it might be worth it for a general melee class to take, simply because it doesn't have the crappy feat requirements like Pious Templar does.

[Ladorak]

Evangelist all the way, no freaking point at all...

[Telonius]

Dwarven Defender. "Oh no, it's a Dwarven Defender! Walk away briskly!"

[sonofzeal]

I'm gonna vote again for Shining Blade. Worse than a Soulknife, your primary class feature is "has a weapon". To get it, you have to give up 1/2 casting?!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and its a standard action to activate your weapon, but guess how long it lasts? Not freakin long enough. And...what do you get? A shocking weapon. Shocking isn't really that good. Demons are immune to electricity, and most devils get Resistance5+ at least. Granted, Holy is slightly better, but think about it. If you had continued progressing in Paladin or Cleric, you could spend that same standard action to FREAKIN CAST ALIGN WEAPON, or better yet, Bless Weapon. Maybe if this class had its own fast Paladin progression like Pious Templar, it might be worth it for a general melee class to take, simply because it doesn't have the crappy feat requirements like Pious Templar does.

You mean those weapon boosts aren't permanent? Even if they were it's on the weak side, but... .wow. I'm AFB, but if that's true then it's definitely a major turkey.

Dwarven Defender. "Oh no, it's a Dwarven Defender! Walk away briskly!"

Seriously? I mean, the class still gets d12 HD, two good saves (and the two best good saves), a healthy AC bonus that stacks with everything, decent DR (as far as D&D DR is ever decent), and uncanny dodge. And Defensive Stance is still useful any time the Battlefield is at all Controlled, or when you're indoors, or in a dungeon, or on a bridge, or can anticipate a dangerous attack and could use a temporary boost to AC or saves. Also, it's a swift action to assume it and a free action to leave it, so you're not exactly trapped in the spot if the situation changes. Overall I'd say DD is at very least balanced compared to straight fighter, and probably somewhat superior if played well.

[togapika]

Dread Witch....
So they have to cast a fear spell at me so I can.... cast a fear spell at them?