Heighten Spell for Wizards

[ObsidianRose]

I've been looking at it, and I just can't figure out practical application for it. I understand its use for sorcerors, when you need to cast a lower level spell, but only have higher slots left, but what's the point of it for a wizard?

I mean you get a slightly better save and all, but why not just memorize a higher level save or suck?

[Crow]

Actually the idea for Sorcerers is that they can continue to use their good low-level spells and gain the benefit of higher save dc's and such without having to use precious spells known on higher-level replacement spells.

For wizards, unless you really want to use Grease or something like that, there is always another spell that is usually better than heightening a low-level one.

[Keld Denar]

Yea, the only wizard builds that really use it are Killer Gnome style Shadowcraft Mages. Then you are really looking to abuse the combination of Earth Spell and Heighten Spell to get spells higher than the spell slot you are using, and to hyper-inflate your caster level.

Again, totally specific useage for a totally specialized build.

[lsfreak]

I just realized you could probably combine Heighten with Chain (one of the two from a rod, most likely) to overcome the -4DC for Chain, if you absolutely needed to. I don't see it as being very worthwhile compared to other metamagics for a wizard, though.

[Chronos]

Note that sorcerers don't need it just to use a high-level slot on a low-level spell: You can do that anyway. It's all about the saving throws. The idea is that a sorcerer can learn a single save-or-suck for each of the three saves (such as Web, Glitterdust, and Stinking Cloud), and then cast those in higher-level slots for tougher monsters, saving higher-level spells known for other effects.

[holywhippet]

It can also be useful for bypassing defensive spells. For example - lesser globe of invulnerability blocks spells that are level 3 and below. Heighten a spell so it's level 4 and it works.

[Fizban]

I've read a 3rd party feat that lets your heightened spells scale damage a bit too, but other than that wizards don't use it unless their DM won't let them buy new spells.

[Collin152]

I've read a 3rd party feat that lets your heightened spells scale damage a bit too, but other than that wizards don't use it unless their DM won't let them buy new spells.

Two feats to do something not particularly useful? I think not.

[FMArthur]

I think if you're trying to go for that sort of effect you're much better off with psionics and picking spells powers with scalable augmentation.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Heighten Spell is also useful for Sorcerers with Reserve feats. For example, an 8th-level sorcerer with burning hands and no other Fire spells, but in posession of Heighten Spell still has a 4th-level Fire spell available to cast (heightened burning hands) as long as he has a first level slot. Therefore, he could still trigger a reserve feat that requires a 4th-level Fire spell.

[Starbuck_II]

I've been looking at it, and I just can't figure out practical application for it. I understand its use for sorcerors, when you need to cast a lower level spell, but only have higher slots left, but what's the point of it for a wizard?

I mean you get a slightly better save and all, but why not just memorize a higher level save or suck?

Because there are awesome low level spells that have no higher level cousins in Core (easier to find replacements).

Like Glitterdust: can you name another spell like that? Probably not.

Now Grease has Sleet Storm.

Assuming, you wanted to deal damage, there is no better Fireball (Cone of Cone isn't as good).

[Draken]

Because there are awesome low level spells that have no higher level cousins in Core (easier to find replacements).

Like Glitterdust: can you name another spell like that? Probably not.

Now Grease has Sleet Storm.

Assuming, you wanted to deal damage, there is no better Fireball (Cone of Cone isn't as good).

Delayed Blast Fireball.

[monty]

Also, direct damage sucks, so doing direct damage with a slightly higher save really isn't all that impressive.

[sonofzeal]

Assuming, you wanted to deal damage, there is no better Fireball (Cone of Cone isn't as good).

Except damage type. Fire is the most resisted; cold is pretty safe usually.


But yeah, burning a higher level slot to raise the DC might not always be the best move, but it has its place. This is especially true for anyone with limited spellslots who can't memorize spells for every single situation at every single level, and who might expect to be casting Glitterdust past the level window where its DC actually matters. Burning a higher slot to give the right spell a decent chance of working is not a bad strategy.

Personally, I consider giving Heighten Spell for free. It's basic enough that, really, every decent spellcaster should be able to do it.

[Thurbane]

Heighten Spell is also useful for Sorcerers with Reserve feats. For example, an 8th-level sorcerer with burning hands and no other Fire spells, but in posession of Heighten Spell still has a 4th-level Fire spell available to cast (heightened burning hands) as long as he has a first level slot. Therefore, he could still trigger a reserve feat that requires a 4th-level Fire spell.

Are you sure about that. It seems like a ...creative?... interpretation of the wording in the Reserve feats.

[Dr_Horrible]

Are you sure about that. It seems like a ...creative?... interpretation of the wording in the Reserve feats.

Seems pretty basic too me.

Can you cast a 4th level Fire spell? Yes. Therefore you get 4d6 on your Fiery Burst.

[monty]

Are you sure about that. It seems like a ...creative?... interpretation of the wording in the Reserve feats.

All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level.

Emphasis mine.

[Chronos]

Except damage type. Fire is the most resisted; cold is pretty safe usually.

I dunno about that... A lot of undead resist or are immune to cold. Cold is probably still more useful than fire, since there are a fair number of fire-subtype creatures that will take extra damage, but they're both down at the bottom of preferred damage types. I'd rank them as fire < cold < electricity < acid < sonic < untyped < force.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Assuming, you wanted to deal damage, there is no better Fireball (Cone of Cone isn't as good).

Empowered Fireball.

Or even better, Empowered Orb of Fire.

[Baalthazaq]

I'd say heighten is useful the way we use it. If anything in the spell description suggests a level appropriate upgrade we give it, but this effect cannot be done more than once.

What do I mean by that?

Limited Wish is a 7th level spell. It duplicates spells of lower level. It might be reasonable to make heighten add 1 to all spell levels it is capable of copying. You basically turn it into a low XP, level 8 equivalent wish, but without allowing it the extra abilities on top. (Wish can ask for anything, this thing's extra asks remain at the same level). This is the most abuse able spell in my opinion.

Similarly with Globe of Invulnerability, which would now block 4th level spells as well.

[arguskos]

I'd rank them as fire < cold < electricity < acid < sonic < untyped < force.

I think you might wanna swap force and untyped there. I know of at least one or two critters with force immunity, but nothing is immune to damage that doesn't have a type. Otherwise, yeah, looks spot on.

Also, Scintillating Sphere is an electric Fireball spell from the Spell Compendium. I ALWAYS take it over Fireball, just because of the damage type.

[MeklorIlavator]

I think you might wanna swap force and untyped there. I know of at least one or two critters with force immunity, but nothing is immune to damage that doesn't have a type. Otherwise, yeah, looks spot on.

Ah, but those are rare, pretty much limited to the Force Dragon, which is epic. In the mean time, Force can hit ethereal targets and such.

[Learnedguy]

Well, in the Leman's arms race that is my spell DC as a beguiler, I find the Heighten Spell rather useful.

[arguskos]

Ah, but those are rare, pretty much limited to the Force Dragon, which is epic. In the mean time, Force can hit ethereal targets and such.

Nope! That's another one. I was thinking of the CR 4 Force Golem and the CR variable Pyroclastic Dragon. Both are immune to force, along with the Force Dragon and the Tartarian Dragon, both with variable CRs. Force immunity is SLIGHTLY more common than most people think.

[Dr_Horrible]

Nope! That's another one. I was thinking of the CR 4 Force Golem and the CR variable Pyroclastic Dragon. Both are immune to force, along with the Force Dragon and the Tartarian Dragon, both with variable CRs. Force immunity is SLIGHTLY more common than most people think.

But still significantly less common then ethereal enemies.

[FMArthur]

Assuming, you wanted to deal damage, there is no better Fireball (Cone of Cone isn't as good).

I'm having difficulty imagining Cone of Cone without hurting my brain trying to picture a spell with a fractal area of effect.

[Talic]

Nope! That's another one. I was thinking of the CR 4 Force Golem and the CR variable Pyroclastic Dragon. Both are immune to force, along with the Force Dragon and the Tartarian Dragon, both with variable CRs. Force immunity is SLIGHTLY more common than most people think.

I'm gonna side the other way on this one.

Force has no miss chance against incorporeal and ethereal, and not many damage types do that (positive/negative do also, but they each are kinda restrictive).

In this respect, it has an added ability that few other damage types have. Much like Vile damage, actually.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Are you sure about that. It seems like a ...creative?... interpretation of the wording in the Reserve feats.

In addition to what was mentioned, the FAQ hints at this application in a side clarification.

The reserve feats (Complete Mage) allow you to use their ability as long as you have a spell of a particular type and minimum level prepared. So if I have a maximized fireball prepared, does that mean the Fiery Burst feat deals 6d6 damage since it is now in a 6th-level spell slot?

No. Even though a metamagic feat changes the level of the slot occupied by the spell, it doesn’t actually change the spell’s level (except for the Heighten Spell feat, or any other effect that specifically changes the spell’s actual level). The reserve feats care about the spell’s actual level, not the spell slot it occupies.

Heighten Spell actually changes the spell's level. That's why it can be used to overcome a lesser globe of invulnerability or achieve other spell-level-based effects in addition to raising spell DCs. Having a Heightened fireball available for a 6th level spell slot means you have a 6th-level fireball for anything that might require it.

I'd rank them as fire < cold < electricity < acid < sonic < untyped < force.

Force is not a damage type. It's a spell descriptor. Most Force spells do untyped damage. The ability to act upon incorporeal or ethereal beings is a function of all Force spells whether or not they do damage.

[Kaiyanwang]

I'm having difficulty imagining Cone of Cone without hurting my brain trying to picture a spell with a fractal area of effect.

Next epic campaing, I want to craft an epic spell like this. Maybe envolving several energy descriptors.

[ericgrau]

It can also be useful for bypassing defensive spells. For example - lesser globe of invulnerability blocks spells that are level 3 and below. Heighten a spell so it's level 4 and it works.

Or heightened light to overcome any level darkness spell with a cantrip :). The wizard really needs planning to pull it off but it can be done. Though, yeah, the sorc being able to do it on the fly and with more high level spells per day gets more advantage from heighten.