[3.5] Building a druid based shaman

[WallyNes]

I am building a new character. A shaman.

A shaman how I see what a shaman should be. That is to say: Dragon shaman, nope. Spirit shaman, nope
Druid template. Druid base. Druid spell list.
Mostly

I have most of it figured out. But there's some things that still bug me.

Setting: All the gods died. Well, corellon is still supposed to be there. But he only really services the elves of magic. It has been so long since there are no gods that people have started worshipping other things. Initially things like fire, harvest. But now things are getting a bit more nuanced. And several mortals have put themselves forth as avatars/gods.

The shaman is an off-shoot of old style druids. Meaning that while the druid is all nature, shamans go more for ideas(emerged between the death of the god and the initial worshipping of the things like fire etc). They commune with, and are given power by, the spirits. Spirits of nature(tree, river etc), but also spirits of animals(hawk, wolf) and the idea behind animals (The hawk spirit) aswell as the spirit of the elements (fire, air). Therefor, for instance, some spells such as talk with animals will be replaced by talk with spirits. The chastise spirits from the spirit shaman will be implemented (Though severely less powerful). Dominate animal will be removed from my spell list. Things like that.

This is where it gets technical. I don't see myself using wild shape until the elemental phase. As it is simply not in the scope of the character. I will be using the aspects of nature instead.
My animal companion got traded in for a spirit guide with very limited combat potential.
Between those two I lose a lot of Umpf of the druid untill his epic caster portion.

Another thing that is part of the druid class that doesn't work for me is: Summon nature's Ally. Now, I can drop this without much problem but that leaves me with nothing for spontanious casting. A druid can drop any spell for a summon nature's ally of the same level. I want to have something for spontanious casting. I can opt for the cleric's option for dropping any spell for a healing spell but I don't want to just be a healbot.

So I need an option on how I can fill in this hole in the character. Preferably so that I make up some of the shortcomings I got from the other things but not too overpowered. (It'll need the DM's seal of approval :P)

The nice thing about Summon Nature's Ally and heal is that you have a new one every level and that you may actually end up using it a lot. I have yet to find something to properly fill that niche.

Any ideas from this forum?

[Fenix_of_Doom]

The PHB II contains a druid variant that trades the spontanious summoning in for a spontaneous fast healing # equal to the used spell slot, you should check it out.

edit: I forgot to mention, the fast healing lasts for 3 rounds and effects all allies(yourself included) within a certain radius, I think 30 ft.

[WallyNes]

I had thought of that.
You mean "Spontanious Rejuvination" right?

And while I am the only healer in the party I don't want to become a walking box of band-aids.

What I'm playing with is writing a list of "spirit spells" from which too choose. My healing obviously comes from the spirits so that would be some of it. Not a healing spell for every level (although many) but I can't get this list to be consistent. It either is just healing. Just silly speak with spirits stuff or turns me into a veritable druid army knife.

[JellyPooga]

I don't mean to criticise (by which, I mean I do, but I don't mean to offend), but although you say you don't want to use the Spirit Shaman class, you seem to be using a few of its attributes to replace those of a Druid.

1) Chastise Spirits

2) Animal Companion exchanged for Spirit Guide

3) Dropping spont. cast Summon Natures Ally

In fact, of the 3 primary Druid Abilities (Wild Shape, Animal Companion and Spellcasting), you appear to only actually have one of those (Spellcasting) and even that you've put a self imposed limit on. You have taken Aspects of Nature instead of Wild Shape, which I guess you couldn't by using the Spirit Shaman class, but apart from that, why do you particularly want to use the Druid as a base class? To my mind, you're making excess 'work' for yourself to tailor the Druid to what you want when the Spirit Shaman is as near as damn-it anyway. SS and Druid share the same BAB, HD, Skills/lvl, Spell-list and one casting stat. With your modifications, they now share Chastise Spirits and Spirit Guide to. The only difference I can see is that your Druid has Aspects of Nature whilst the SS has stuff like Ghost Warrior and such.

So, before I give you any advice (which I can and will), answer me true: Why Druid and not Spirit Shaman?

[WallyNes]

Because the spirit shaman is built around spirits much more than what I'm trying to do is. It would require a severe re-writing of whatever universe the DM is building that would allow me to be useful. I mean, as SS (nice abbrev there) all my special things would require there to be evil spirits out to get our party. Taking the entire SS class I would either end up being relatively useless or most of my party being useless while I do my thing.
Now it is more of a flavor roleplaying thing.

We also reworked the chastise spirit spell. In looking for what to build we came across this class of course and liked the thought of the spell. But 1D6/level for all spirit in 30 ft was thought to be slightly OP.

Also, we tried to not give me a spirit guide but giving me a ghost type incorporeal animal companion was not something we could justify. Well, the DM couldn't. I would have been perfectly able to not abuse that power. Really

[JellyPooga]

Ah, I see, sorry, when you mentioned Spirit Guide, I thought you meant literally the SS Class Feature of the same name. Have you considered something along the lines of the Hexblades Dark Companion (PHBII) as a base for your new ability?

Spirit Shaman isn't all about evil spirits...it's all Fey and Elementals as well. However, you're right, the one failing of SS is that against non-spirits they're limited to their Spellcasting only (pretty much). Chastise Spirits being OP is a matter for you to decide, but I've never considered it extreme myself. The very fact that it's limited to Spirits makes it balanced to my mind (against anyting but spirits, it's useless and you can't use it to power Divine feats, like Turn Undead, for example).

Anyways, to get to the point, you're looking for a Summon Natures' Ally replacement to spont. cast. My suggestion would be to look through Cleric Domains and pick one of the lists that is appropriate, perhaps even (if this is a generic alternative class open to others but yourself) offer a selection of Domains that you must choose one from. You don't get the Domain granted ability, just the spell-list to choose from. For Example: the Plant Domain would give you the following to spont. cast at each spell level:

1: Entangle
2: Bark Skin
3: Plant Growth
4: Command Plants
5: Wall of Thorns
6: Repel Wood
7: Animate Plants
8: Control Plants
9: Shambler

Other appropriate ones would be Air, Fire, Earth, Water (elemental spirits), Animal (animal spirits) and Weather (duh!). That's just off the SRD, so there's others out there, but I don't know what books you have access to, so I won't mention them.

[WallyNes]

Our (former)DM has pretty much everything. And I have them digitally.

That dark companion looks interesting. I'd read the words "Nothing phases you. Like the warlock, you are a son of darkness" and skipped over that class. I'll see if that is workable. Or maybe just parts of it. Rebuilding stuff anyway, might aswell do it properly eh.

And those lists are a good idea. I couldn't get any continuity in my lists.

Thanks for your help so far

[Leon]

Instead of just the Animal Summons, see if you can choose one spell per level that is your spontaneous conversion spell with a new choice replacing it on each spell level

[Tensu]

This is where it gets technical. I don't see myself using wild shape until the elemental phase. As it is simply not in the scope of the character. I will be using the aspects of nature instead.

what are you talking about? Non-druid shaman turned themselves into animals more than druids. that and communing with the spirt realm is pretty much all they did. In most cultures, shamen where the big animals! guys. Druids where the elemental "light everything on fire!" pyromaniacs.

[Crazy Scot]

Well, I think that you are getting some pretty good suggestions so far on your other concerns, but one thing caught my attention that I wanted to touch on briefly. You said that "While you are the only healer in the party...", and yet you are worried about becoming a walking box of band-aids. Having played a few of these before, I know both sides of this problem, and you should be aware of them too. The most important one is running out of healing, as that is a bad thing. I did find a moderate work-around that only requires one spell for an entire day's worth of healing, though it is far from perfect. The feat I am talking about is "Touch of Healing", a reserve feat, from Complete Champion. Basically, as long as you have a 2nd level or higher conjuration (healing) spell available to be cast, you can heal with a touch (though slowly), up to a maximum of 1/2 a person's max hp. Again, this isn't fast, and probably not too useful in combat, and won't get people to full health, but you can use it between battles to get rid of smaller problems on the run. I have found it is a great way to make healing go a lot further without restricting your ability to function well in other areas throughout the day. But it is just a suggestion...