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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Khatoblepas's Avatar

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    Default "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    So, we have a Primordial Half-Giant Warlock wandering around Eberron, needing a boost and wanting ultimate warlock power. I came across Return to Nature when I was looking up Artificer infusions, and it seemed like it could give Warlocks exactly what they need.

    Small +1 / +2 Dex
    Tiny +2 / +4 Dex
    Diminuative +4 / +6 Dex
    Fine +8 / +8 Dex

    Quote Originally Posted by Return to Nature, ECS 118

    Duration: Instantaneous

    ....Giants subjected to this spell become smaller, as
    though affected by a reduce person spell (see page 269 of
    the Player’s Handbook). A successful Fortitude save negates
    this effect....
    Now, you may think that it wouldn't stack if it is cast more than once:

    Instantaneous Effects

    Two or more spells with instantaneous durations work cumulatively when they affect the same targe
    The spell effect has effectively ended, so Return to Nature works again - because the Giant is now Small naturally, not because it's under any spell. The reduce person effect can't be dispelled.

    If you go down to Fine size, you gain:
    + 8 AC/to Hit
    + 16 to hide.
    + 8 Dex
    - 8 Str

    Invisibility will give you a +40 without any hide ranks (taking into account the extra dex). You have a +12 to hit with your EB, +12 AC without armor, and noone can ever find you, ever. Fancy being a Pixie but without being a lame fairy and with Powerful Build? Now's your chance. Enjoy your new power. The power of being a Smurf. You can even do this yourself at level 12. Hellfire Smurf go!

    Is this at all kosher?
    Last edited by Khatoblepas; 2009-04-10 at 08:07 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Is this at all kosher?
    It shouldn't be, but none of the reasons why it wouldn't be seem to apply. More importantly, though, it's absolutely hilarious.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    I'm thinking RAI was that it'd have a separate duration for dwarfing the giant. However, errata doesn't say anything and so it'd be golden if you could find a 13th-level or higher gatekeeper to cast it for you :) Or, you could create a scroll yourself if you're a warlock...

    This is so friggin' hilarious


    p.s. If you're an arcane caster though, you'll get 1d4 negative level per casting :(

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    I can already imagine the pint-sized giant terror.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    "Well sir, I couldn't help but notice what a fine giant you had there" XD

    Sorry, had to do it.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salt_Crow View Post
    "Well sir, I couldn't help but notice what a fine giant you had there" XD

    Sorry, had to do it.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salt_Crow View Post
    "Well sir, I couldn't help but notice what a fine giant you had there" XD
    Even better is when the needle-wide beam of purple light it shoots at you for making such a horrible pun deals 7d6 damage and a negative level
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    So this is literally the world's smallest giant?

    Nice.
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Deth Muncher's Avatar

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Quote Originally Posted by streakster View Post
    So this is literally the world's smallest giant?

    Nice.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Khatoblepas's Avatar

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salt_Crow View Post
    p.s. If you're an arcane caster though, you'll get 1d4 negative level per casting :(
    That's only if you're a Humanoid arcane spellcaster. ;)

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Quote Originally Posted by lsfreak View Post
    Even better is when the needle-wide beam of purple light it shoots at you for making such a horrible pun deals 7d6 damage and a negative level
    Or even better, mutters a word, and changes you into a Chicken.

    I wonder how it would interact with Crawling Eye and Disembodied hand. By RAW, the hand is dimunitive, and the eye is fine regardless of your base size, so the moment you detach your eye, it becomes as big as you, and your hand becomes 1 size category larger.

    Also, you can make use of your enhanced Hide with Nightmares made Real, or Darkness + Blend into Shadows that grant you HiPS.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Also, you can make use of your enhanced Hide with Nightmares made Real, or Darkness + Blend into Shadows that grant you HiPS.
    As someone pointed out in another thread, when you're that small, you don't need HiPS: Even the grass will give you concealment.

    Of course, everyone else would also have concealment from you due to the grass, but that's not a problem: Fell Flight up five feet, make your attack (or full attack, with Eldritch Glaive, since you only moved 5 feet), then fall as a free action to land back in the grass (and take no damage, since the fall is so short).
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Zomg.. its a killer grasshopper!
    Avatar thanks to neoseph7

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    So you are saying They Might Be Giants?
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    What's the easiest (least LA) way to get this done?

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foryn Gilnith View Post
    What's the easiest (least LA) way to get this done?
    Half-Giant... LA +1.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Akal Saris's Avatar

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    You've created Tiny from DoTA in reverse!

    Seriously though, very clever find!
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    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeminiZero View Post
    Or even better, mutters a word, and changes you into a Chicken.

    I wonder how it would interact with Crawling Eye and Disembodied hand. By RAW, the hand is dimunitive, and the eye is fine regardless of your base size, so the moment you detach your eye, it becomes as big as you, and your hand becomes 1 size category larger.

    Which, of course, means you can ride your own hand. Cavalry away!
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  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    As a DM, I would rule that you stop at Medium size, because of this:

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Giant Type
    A giant is a humanoid-shaped creature of great strength, usually of at least Large size.
    Features
    A giant has the following features.
    * 8-sided Hit Dice.
    * Base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice (as cleric).
    * Good Fortitude saves.
    * Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

    Traits
    A giant possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
    * Low-light vision.
    * Proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as any natural weapons.
    * Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Giants not described as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Giants are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
    * Giants eat, sleep, and breathe.
    So as soon as he hits medium, he's not a Giant anymore--now he's a Humanoid, and is an invalid target for the shrinking effect.

    Still, that's a DM ruling (or RAMS) and not RAW or even RAI.
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2009-11-04 at 04:16 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    This entire idea to begin with is based off the Rule of Funny anyways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Hadrian_Emrys's Avatar

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Both half-giants, and half-minotaurs from small races, are medium sized though. A ruling is a ruling, but there is plenty of room for grumbling.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    As a DM, I would rule that you stop at Medium size, because of this:



    So as soon as he hits medium, he's not a Giant anymore--now he's a Humanoid, and is an invalid target for the shrinking effect.

    Still, that's a DM ruling (or RAMS) and not RAW or even RAI.
    Usually/=always.
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Question Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hadrian_Emrys View Post
    Both half-giants, and half-minotaurs from small races, are medium sized though. A ruling is a ruling, but there is plenty of room for grumbling.
    Half-Minotaurs shouldn't be Giants as their base race, the minotaur, is a Monstrous Humanoid. That template has so much wrong with it to begin with it's hardly worth noting.

    Half-Giants are, for all intents and purposes, Large size due to Powerful Build and are a special case anyway.
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2009-11-04 at 04:45 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    Half-Minotaurs shouldn't be Giants as their base race, the minotaur, is a Monstrous Humanoid. That template has so much wrong with it to begin with it's hardly worth noting.

    Half-Giants are, for all intents and purposes, Large size due to Powerful Build and are a special case anyway.
    Again, "usually of at least large size" means there are ones that are smaller than large.
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  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Usually/=always.
    Yeah, I know, especially in D&D. Still, in an effort to keep things from being wtf and to keep from having extra extra double-miniature storm giants running around (now in size Tiny!), that's the ruling I'd make. Take it or leave it.

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