[3.5] CON-based class for an inferior Mongrelfolk?

[Bulwer]

I'm looking for a class anywhere in 3.5 that uses Constitution as a primary statistic. Homebrew is fine, too. I'm looking for a way to make a Mongrelfolk with decidedly poor stats be competent at something.

[Talic]

If you go Dragonfire adept, you get a breath weapon. Combine with Dragonborn of Bahamut, and you get another. From there, you qualify for Metabreath feats (Draconomicon, etc). Breath weapons all use Con to determine Save DC, and Dragonborn gives a further boost to Con, above and beyond your mongrelfolk's impressive +4. Yes, a level 1 Dragonborn mongrelfolk with a base con of 18 has a 26 con.

[Zincorium]

Incarnate, but you're more of a pale imitation of any class, but you can change which one on a daily basis.

Warlock is probably your next best bet, maybe even hellfire warlock. Druid (probably warshaper/master of many forms) and Barbarian should be playable in a relatively relaxed game, but you still need at least a base of other stuff. Warblade, with a focus on Diamond Mind, could also work at later levels, but you're going to have to play your maneuvers tight to your chest and ramp up constitution.

X stat to Y bonus lists a few benefits you can glean from high constitution, but it's mostly dips.

[Bulwer]

My stat spread is a rather impressive 14/13/12/11/11/11. And I think I'd like to stay Mongrelfolk, but I like DFA. Are there any other options for using my Con?

[Talic]

My stat spread is a rather impressive 14/13/12/11/11/11. And I think I'd like to stay Mongrelfolk, but I like DFA. Are there any other options for using my Con?

You can have dragonborn AND mongrelfolk.

Dragonborn is a template that costs 100gp and a non-evil alignment. It rewrites a few racial abilities, and gives you the option of a breath weapon with a 1d4 round cooldown. That's important, because it lets you qualify for metabreath feats, which require you have a breath weapon with a cooldown measured in rounds.

It does not, however, erase the old race's stat modifiers. It does add an additional +2 Con and a -2 Dex.

[Bulwer]

No, I'm quite aware of Dragonborn and all of its benefits. I mean that I want to stay a proper Mongrelfolk, and not start off as a Dragonborn.

Of course, I may not have that luxury what with my stats, but I'd like to explore my options.

[Talic]

In that case, there's either the full-blown Half-Dragon, or doing without metabreath. Metabreath, however, substantially increases the power of the breath weapon, at the cost of frequency.

With a 14 base, you'd have an 18 after Mongrelfolk. +4 modifier to breath weapon, for a DC of 14. Ability focus could get you a 16.

With a 14 base, a Dragonfire Mongrelfolk sports a 20, +5 modifier, for a DC of 15. Heighten Breath could take it all the way to a DC 20. Ability focus could take that to DC 22.

So there's a decent power gap there. Not counting the ability to maximize a breath, extend it to shoot crazy far, cause it to linger multiple rounds, or even with feats in other books, cause it to stick to enemies multiple rounds, damaging and entangling them.

[Tempest Fennac]

There's a Shugenja variant somewhere which uses other stats for casting depending on the element they use. (Earth types use Con, water= Wis, fire= Int and wind = Cha). I don't know where that variant can be found but it may help you here.

[Harperfan7]

Psions in 3.0 used the score that correlated to their power, one of which was constitution. In 3.5, they all use Intelligence, but if your DM is cool with it, just be a psion who uses Con (I don't remember the name of the Con based power).

[Chronos]

So there's a decent power gap there. Not counting the ability to maximize a breath, extend it to shoot crazy far, cause it to linger multiple rounds, or even with feats in other books, cause it to stick to enemies multiple rounds, damaging and entangling them.

Entangling Exhalation is not a metabreath feat, does not increase the recharge time, and does not require a recharge time. You can (and should) use it even without Dragonborn.

[Draz74]

Yeah ... don't worry about Metabreath or the Dragonborn template, you'll do just fine just as a Mongrelfolk DFA.

If you want more ways to use your CON, one thing you could do is still use Incarnum, via feats. It takes a lot of feats to get a decent amount of Incarnum "dipping," especially if you're not an Incarnum race, but that's ok, DFA is one of the least feat-starved classes in the game.

[Graymayre]

You can go into that fists of the forests (class or PRC, not sure) thing that gives con to AC.

[The Glyphstone]

Totemists are CON-dependent too, aren't they?

[Tempest Fennac]

Fist of the Forest is a PrC from Complete Champion which is a nature-based Monk which also gets a form of Rage which grants claws and a Dex boost (I think). I think all Magic of Incarnum classes focus on Con as well.

[MeklorIlavator]

They all do, but don't do a soulborn. They are largely considered to be crap.

[Talic]

Yes, I know that entangling exhalation is not metabreath.

Still, metabreath is effective enough that the build DOES benefit from it considerably, considering the short range and low damage of the breath weapons involved. Being able to quicken an entangling exhalation breath while increasing the DC of ending it by +6? For 1 template and 2 feats? I'd say that qualifies as an improvement worthy of consideration.

Is it playable without? Yes. Is it effective? Not particularly.

The DC to escape his entangling exhalation without that is 14. Not very hard at all. Add in that combination, and it's a respectable 20.

[Sinfire Titan]

Totemists are CON-dependent too, aren't they?

They like a decent Str/Dex score though. Theoretically, he can build a Totemist version of the DFA standard builds, but it doesn't start working until 2nd level. Relevant thread.

He can do something if he puts the 14 into Str and the 13 into Con, but most of his stat boosters will be going to his Str score if he even thinks about getting into melee combat.

@OP: 14, 13, 12, 11, 11, 11 is just barely above what the PHB says the DM should let you reroll. At the very least, ask if you can use the Elite Array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). You end up with 2 dump stats instead of 3. You've effectively ended up with a 24 PB build, which is very weak for anything at all.

Why you would go with Mongrelfolk instead of something like Lesser Planetouched races or taking a +1 LA on a melee build is a bit odd. Those stats need boosters, badly.

[TheCountAlucard]

@OP: 14, 13, 12, 11, 11, 11 is just barely above what the PHB says the DM should let you reroll. At the very least, ask if you can use the Elite Array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). You end up with 2 dump stats instead of 3. You've effectively ended up with a 24 PB build, which is very weak for anything at all.

I'm the DM of said game, and we've already rerolled his stats. He's now got a 16, 16, 14, 13, 12, and a 10. Much better, if I do say so myself.

[Sinfire Titan]

I'm the DM of said game, and we've already rerolled his stats. He's now got a 16, 16, 14, 13, 12, and a 10. Much better, if I do say so myself.

Now those are Totemist stats! 16 Str, 16 Con, 14 Int, 13 Dex, and whatever else he feels like.


Makes a very viable Warblade too.

[herrhauptmann]

It's a little late now, but here's an idea. Crazy as balls though.

1 level in X.
3 levels in Stone Blessed. He can now count as a dwarf, or goliath or gnome for PrC's and items that require a particular race. Also gets most of hte racial bonuses, among them a +2 Con.

Dwarf paragon levels. (If there's a mongrelfolk paragon, you could probably take that before stoneblessed).
At teh end of this, you get full bab, good fort and wis, and a +2 Con.

Deepwarden: Level 2 grants you Stone warden. Con to Ac.

After this, jump to Pious Templar. Which grants you mettle, anything that requires a fort or will save for partial or half effects, if you succeed, you take no damage or effects whatsoever.

Mind you, I mostly just cribbed this off of a half-ogre half orc dwarven defender warhulk I made for fun. (ftr/stoneblessed3/ deepwarden 2/dwf defender1/dwf paragon/Pious templar4/warhulk) Though you only get 4 levels of warhulk before getting epic. And Warhulk had to go last, because he becomes unable to use any skill which requires Int,wis,cha except intimidate.

[Baalthazaq]

You may, depending on your age, wish to check out the book of erotic fantasy for a couple of con based classes. None of them are completely con based though.

[Typewriter]

Something I've done before with a high CON is this(and it really depends on your groups opinion on the book savages species, as well as the generic classes.

20 CON
Toughness
FEAT: Roll with it(grants 2DR / - every time you take it and stacks with itself.
Two levels of expert gets you 2 feats
Four levels of warrior gets you 3 feats
1 Level of caster gets you another feat
Then dump all remaining levels into warrior for more and more feats.

Dont worry about armor, just get your DR as high as you can.

Expert1 Level 1-Toughness, DR2
Expert2 Level 2-DR4
Warrior1 Level 3-DR6, DR8
Warrior2 Level 4-DR10
Spellcaster1 Level 5-DR12
Warrior3 Level 6-DR14
Warrior4 Level 7-DR16

So on and so forth. If you're allowed flaws then you can easily get another 4DR. With this build you can get 26DR/- by level 10.

You also have a few skills from taking expert as your first class, and a couple 1st level spells to have a (small) bit of fun with.

Because you dont care about armor take a two hander and try to smash smash smash. If you can find a way to get SR, or spell immunity(which makes you immune to healing spells as well(the only place I've seen this is in the 'yuck' WOW D&D book)) you'd be on the path to damage immunity. And when you do take damage? You have a 20 CON, so you probably have plenty of HP.

Like I said, this build depends heavily on your groups opinion of savage species and the generic classes, but it can be fun. My DM allowed me to take spell immunity as a 1 level adjustment(no heals, no buffs, no benefit from magic weapons/items, etc balanced it) I took high ranks in bluff. When someone in the party went to heal me(because I had taken 1 damage from a dinosaur who critically bit me, making my character scream in pain) I rolled spellcraft(because I had high points in it from expert), and yelled out in pain, claiming that she had used the wrong kind of healing, and that I needed the 'other kind'. She wasted more spells on me(negative energy this time), and I said thank you and ran off before she could examine the wound.

The party was convinced I was undead the entire campaign, and I constantly made the cleric waste mana to 'heal' me.

[Tempest Fennac]

I like the Generic classes, but I don't think I'd let a player multiclass like that solely for the extra feats (I tend to think PC class training should take quite a long time, so suddenly leveling in a class you haven't been trained in). Combat Vigour, which needs Combat Focus and 13 Wis, would help if you got hurt when using that sort of build. ( http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-...mbat_Vigor,PH2 .)

[Typewriter]

Oh, I agree. I would never allow someone to multiclass so freely(with the generic classes anyway).

It's just that that DM loves game breaking stuff, and I occasionally take advantage. I cant tell you how often he's come to me while I DM and said:

Powergamer: "Hey, can I use X book from X system with our 3.5 campaign"

Me: "Why? That's not an official book, so it probably breaks something"

PG: "No, no no....it doesn't break anything. It just uses this concept which I think is really cool"

Me: "That is ok I guess....what were you going to use it in conjunction with?"

PG: "Oh, this and that and that and this so that I have infinite AC, and 23 attacks per round each doing 234d12 damage".

Me: "No, that is broken"

PG: "NO IT"S NOT"

[sonofzeal]

Con-dependent base classes....

Dragonfire Adept - Brilliant BC with the right feats, some damage-dealing, very Warlock-esque

Totemist - Flexible class with some good damage-dealing combos, can totally change its specialty given 24 hours.

Binder - Flexible class with some good tanking combos, can totally change its specialty given 24 hours.

[sonofzeal]

Something I've done before with a high CON is this(and it really depends on your groups opinion on the book savages species, as well as the generic classes.

20 CON
Toughness
FEAT: Roll with it(grants 2DR / - every time you take it and stacks with itself.
Two levels of expert gets you 2 feats
Four levels of warrior gets you 3 feats
1 Level of caster gets you another feat
Then dump all remaining levels into warrior for more and more feats.

Dont worry about armor, just get your DR as high as you can.

Expert1 Level 1-Toughness, DR2
Expert2 Level 2-DR4
Warrior1 Level 3-DR6, DR8
Warrior2 Level 4-DR10
Spellcaster1 Level 5-DR12
Warrior3 Level 6-DR14
Warrior4 Level 7-DR16

So on and so forth. If you're allowed flaws then you can easily get another 4DR. With this build you can get 26DR/- by level 10.

You also have a few skills from taking expert as your first class, and a couple 1st level spells to have a (small) bit of fun with.

Because you dont care about armor take a two hander and try to smash smash smash. If you can find a way to get SR, or spell immunity(which makes you immune to healing spells as well(the only place I've seen this is in the 'yuck' WOW D&D book)) you'd be on the path to damage immunity. And when you do take damage? You have a 20 CON, so you probably have plenty of HP.

Like I said, this build depends heavily on your groups opinion of savage species and the generic classes, but it can be fun. My DM allowed me to take spell immunity as a 1 level adjustment(no heals, no buffs, no benefit from magic weapons/items, etc balanced it) I took high ranks in bluff. When someone in the party went to heal me(because I had taken 1 damage from a dinosaur who critically bit me, making my character scream in pain) I rolled spellcraft(because I had high points in it from expert), and yelled out in pain, claiming that she had used the wrong kind of healing, and that I needed the 'other kind'. She wasted more spells on me(negative energy this time), and I said thank you and ran off before she could examine the wound.

The party was convinced I was undead the entire campaign, and I constantly made the cleric waste mana to 'heal' me.

Hey now, that's my "Henry the Indestructable" build! Or at least what it evolved into (see "edit2").

Note that if you do it that way, you end up.... less than useful. A way to make it substantially more playable is to go Rogue20, using the Rogue "Special Ability" feat option to grab extra Rolls. You get less than with the Generic classes, but more than most other options, and end up entirely effective. I've actually played this way, and used Poison Dusk Lizardfolk as the base race, with a small dip into Swordsage for Assassin's Stance, and then UMD'd a Minor Schema of Nightstalker's Transformation. Was glorious.

[Bugbeartrap]

Another CON based feature is Spellfire from Magic of Faerun. It's 3.0 and from Forgotten Realms, but its only worth a feat and can add extra versatility to your character. I made a Spellfire weilding mongrelfolk half-iron golem once, that went warlock and to heal himself with infinite spell levels.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dragon Shaman from PH2 could be a decent choice, medium armor and shield proficiency with d10 HP and a decent breath weapon. Touch of Vitality won't be great due to your low Cha, but it's not really worth much until level 11+ and by then you can have a +4 cloak. Start out middle-age, go Str 12, Dex 10, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 9, at level 4 boost Con, level 8 boost Cha, and everything else into Con after that. Get Shield Specialization (PH2), Shield Ward (PH2), Recover Breath (Draco), Ability Focus: Breath (MM), Double Draconic Aura (DM), and after that probably get Entangling Exhalation (RotD) and/or some metabreath feats (Draco) such as Maximize Breath and Clinging Breath. In the very late game you'll want to wear Mithril Full Plate with +6 Gloves of Dex (or Belt of Magnificense from MHB). Maybe also pick up Combat Reflexes once your Dex is higher and get an animated shield with a reach weapon, which is especially good with Entangling Exhalation.

[Typewriter]

@sonofzeal

Too efficient.

The build I had could hurt things slightly(2d8+6), and aside from that was there to make a ruckus. I used lots of rope in battle to cause mayhem and such, as well as draining the clerics SP on heals(or harms as it were) that did nothing.

Most of the people I played with at that point weren't that good at making characters, and rather than make something ridiculous I tend to just play something as weak as them. This character had staying power, that's for sure. I even took the prestige class 'survivor' from savage species once i hit 20 DR because, well, why not?

Though for an NPC in my current campaign, adding some combat capabilities, and maybe even some fast healing would be nice and mean.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Though for an NPC in my current campaign, adding some combat capabilities, and maybe even some fast healing would be nice and mean.

Fireball. And then a bit more Fireball. Maybe an Orb of Fire, if we're getting crazy. But really, damage spells ignore DR. That alone is enough to kill him, let alone a SoD.