Adventures in annoyance and frustration land!

[Parakirby]

Alt. title: Why you don't send out rust monsters.

So I'm playing an intelligent, lawful good half-orc warrior, who despite being strong and having a common charisma, is actually a noble (technically) on the human side, but was swept under the rug, basically. I started off in bad leather armor, and since my dex bonus was nothing to write home about (A whopping -1 from my 9 in the stat) I instantly had a geas to go buy better armor.

Talking about it over and over again was probably my first mistake.

We soon get chain shirts and begin adventuring. I go from level 1 to 3 before we finally get to a town, where I purchase some banded armor. My teammates are earning money like crazy, but because of my alignment, I can't do the shady, stupid things they do.

Being the only good-aligned party member is awesome. (The rest were neutral and 'neutral')

Anyway, I finally get my armor. I lock my gauntlets (A crit fail, in our game, meant dropping your weapon. Two ones means it breaks.) and spike my armor before we head out on adventure!

The fifth fight we face takes place in a roundish cave with a wooden cage in the center. We hear something scurrying that doesn't respond to speech and I suggest setting the cage on fire, but the rest of the party says 'no, what if it's sentient but mute?'

So the party cleric (I **** you not) goes in front of the cage to see what's inside. (It was blocked off on all but one side)

The large beetle bursts from the cage and attacks her, while me and the other fighter do what comes naturally. I roll a 1 to hit and then a 3 to confirm, and grow a puzzled look when I see a case of the smiling DM. The beetle bites me, I take two and think nothing of it.

Then the other fighter rolls a 20.
And then again another 20 to confirm.

Instead of doing max damage, his bastard sword disintegrates.

I run like hell but NOPE my armor disintegrates after a certain amount of time, or something.

The other fighter throws his D20 against his desk so hard we couldn't find it for about an hour. I'm just annoyed, but I don't have a hissy fit. (For comparison's sake, while he specialized in the bastard sword, he had an axe with the same stats, just with two less to hit. The bastard sword in question costs about 50g. My armor, on the other hand, cost about 550g, +50 for spikes and ~+20 for the locked gauntlets)

I figure I'd bitch and moan here about my own personal games here rather than to my DM.

Another **** scenario is that because I'm good and the rest are neutral they tend to steal **** before I get my fair share of the loot. So far EVERYONE but myself in the party has gotten a magical item of protection. (The party consisting of a psionic, a cleric, a rogue, a mage (Who rolled a new monk with a vow of poverty. We didn't get her stuff.) and a second fighter.

I just needed to vent. Thanks for reading.

[Tempest Fennac]

Why did the other guy's sword disintigrate? Also, why did you suggest setting the cage on fire? (I can see the rest of the party's point about how a mute person could have been inside it).

[Artanis]

I figure I'd bitch and moan here about my own personal games here rather than to my DM.

If you don't bring it up with the DM, it's just going to keep happening.

Another **** scenario is that because I'm good and the rest are neutral they tend to steal **** before I get my fair share of the loot. So far EVERYONE but myself in the party has gotten a magical item of protection. (The party consisting of a psionic, a cleric, a rogue, a mage (Who rolled a new monk with a vow of poverty. We didn't get her stuff.) and a second fighter.

I just needed to vent. Thanks for reading.

Yet another reason to talk to the DM. If you aren't getting your fair share of the loot, then you need to talk to the DM and the other players and tell them that being screwed like that is bringing the game down for you.

This goes double if you're a Paladin: if stealing "offends your moral code", then by RAW you are not allowed to associate with them. You even risk Falling if you stay with them anyways.

[Greengiant]

Alt. title: Why you don't send out rust monsters.

Hmmm, an idea springs to mind, tugged forth from my head by a stroke of my marvelous goatee. Sounds like you just got the motivation for an alignment shift, or! a character inspiration based on alignment. Think to yourself, how would your character feel, surrounded by non-lawful, mostly non-good characters, getting whatever they want, whenever they want, not caring about the cost.

Maybe your character feels this might be a better way to handle things, or maybe he now is compelled to find ways a good character can out-do those miscreants.

You could, for example: Your half-orc gets so pissed at always following the rules, and then getting his hard-earned armor rusted off his body, he gets pissed, goes to the armorsmith, and threatens death upon him unless he can get new armor, or, he goes to the local armory and steals some.

That's just the chaotic way to do it, I'd say.

Or, you can get the mayor to give you money on loan or something, resting on your lawful good alignment, you could even say that you'll get a paladin to detect alignment on you, to be sure. Then, buy another set of armor, maybe even better armor, and eventually repay him, slaying the rust monster for profit, or other things.

Good has benefits, but they're not as easy to get, and usually take longer.

That's my take on the situation, I hope it helped.

[Kol Korran]

i just wanted to send my sympathies. **** happens, sometime because of DMs, and rust monsters are amongst the most annoying and game stopping monsters to throw out there.

as to the players and the looting, just talk to them, and make them understand it hurts your fun of the game. they should find some out game and in game solution to the problem. it shouldn't just continue like this.

again, my sympathies.
Kol

[Tengu_temp]

So you have a jerk DM who loves screwing his players over and jerk party members who steal your share of loot and use their characters' alignment as an excuse?
Talk with them. Seriously. And, depending on the results, you might consider looking for another group.

[Starbuck_II]

Anyway, I finally get my armor. I lock my gauntlets (A crit fail, in our game, meant dropping your weapon. Two ones means it breaks.) and spike my armor before we head out on adventure!

And this is why I hate that houserule: it makes little sense.

Think about Fighters at higher levels they get multiple attacks: they have a higher chance of breaking their weapon every time by then.

Then the other fighter rolls a 20.
And then again another 20 to confirm.

Wait, shouldn't it have been both?

Creature is killed but sword desolves?.

I run like hell but NOPE my armor disintegrates after a certain amount of time, or something.

You should have beaten it to death with your fists: it can't dissolve that and it isn't that strong.

It'd be epic looking: you take all your anger, all your frustration, all your love, Shining Finger!

[Farlion]

Short answer: Find yourself a new DM or start DMing yourself.

Long answer:

Your DM seems to feel childish joy whend harassing players who take roleplaying serious and don't mind having a disadvantage due to alignment/codex etc. Your DM still has to learn that the game only makes fun, if the DM and the characters work together to make the game fun. If your DM enjoys destroying hard earned items without giving replacement, he should rethink if DMing is really what he likes doing. I found that it's far more appealing to gameplay to reward good RP than to punish people that take it seriously. This does not mean, my players do not sweat blood time after time, but the destruction of player equipment always has a reason other than simple sadism.

Cheers,
Farlion

[Assassin89]

Then the other fighter rolls a 20.
And then again another 20 to confirm.

Instead of doing max damage, his bastard sword disintegrates.

Rust Monsters do not work that way. As the monster manual entry clearly states, a rust monster must make a successful touch attack in order to cause an object to rust.

[Vexxation]

You should have beaten it to death with your fists: it can't dissolve that and it isn't that strong.

It'd be epic looking: you take all your anger, all your frustration, all your love, Shining Finger!

Not only would it be epic, but you never know: Maybe the RP and awesome would net some XP to put you a bit ahead. Then as soon as you get more loot/level/whatever, buy Bluesteel armor to make sure it never happens again.

[Calinero]

I've never fought a rust monster, and from the sound of it, I never want to...I would definitely have a talk with the rest of the party about some rules for looting.

[chiasaur11]

What everyone else said.

You have a group that fails to understand one of the basic rules of adventuring (If Problem use fire). If they don't shape up, well, you're all gonna die, and you die worst.

[Kylarra]

Rust Monsters do not work that way. As the monster manual entry clearly states, a rust monster must make a successful touch attack in order to cause an object to rust.

Nah. The sword was validly gone (armor not so much), but it should've killed the little buggger.

A metal weapon that deals damage to a rust monster corrodes immediately. Wooden, stone, and other nonmetallic weapons are unaffected.

emphasis mine.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rustMonster.htm

[Parakirby]

Why did the other guy's sword disintigrate? Also, why did you suggest setting the cage on fire? (I can see the rest of the party's point about how a mute person could have been inside it).

I dunno, actually, that's kinda bothering me. I think the DM thought he had some sort of aura of rustification. Or something.

If you aren't getting your fair share of the loot, then you need to talk to the DM and the other players and tell them that being screwed like that is bringing the game down for you.

This goes double if you're a Paladin: if stealing "offends your moral code", then by RAW you are not allowed to associate with them. You even risk Falling if you stay with them anyways.

It's not really the DM's fault - It's the other player's. (Players'?) They go off to steal and whatnot on their own side adventures.

One such example was that our guide died of a poison the healer forgot to cure. We couldn't decide on the way to bury him (Since we'd seen wendigos, which are basically men who'd been turned into cannibals) way up in the rocky mountains. Dragging him back down was out of the picture, so we decide funeral pyre would be best. I go with the now good-aligned monk to go get wood, even though I say it'd give away our position.

Aaand they loot the body while we're away and find an amulet and ring, each one enchanted with protection.

Then they behead the corpse and throw it off a cliff.

You should have beaten it to death with your fists: it can't dissolve that and it isn't that strong.

It'd be epic looking: you take all your anger, all your frustration, all your love, Shining Finger!

I'd tried cool moves before and they hadn't ended well. It's about a 50/50 chance he'll let it happen. For example, I've punted a tiny enemy. Strength 18, the thing goes flying away. Another example was I tried to climb an undead dire wolf and stab at it from it's back. I fail, and it gets an AOO.

Not only would it be epic, but you never know: Maybe the RP and awesome would net some XP to put you a bit ahead. Then as soon as you get more loot/level/whatever, buy Bluesteel armor to make sure it never happens again.

As far as I can tell, we don't get any RP XP.

What everyone else said.

You have a group that fails to understand one of the basic rules of adventuring (If Problem use fire). If they don't shape up, well, you're all gonna die, and you die worst.

Oh yeah, I've been telling the entire group to buy seemingly useless items. I actually used a grappling hook to tug an archer off a cliff. THAT was pretty awesome.

This group is comprised of my friends, and calling bull**** and stopping would be kinda lame of me... I'd prefer not to.

[Tiki Snakes]

There's only one thing for it. Keep quiet, smile, nod, and take advice from the most evil of character optimising boards to make your unasuming rp heavy half orc a combat monster of the ilk that makes grown deities cry.

(Preferably as fairly as possible, with no controversial stuff or items, so no shenanigans can be called.)

[Person_Man]

There's a cheap magic item in the Complete Adventurer called the Amulet of Aberrant Empathy. It let's you use Handle Animal in place of Diplomacy to influence the attitude of aberrations with a low Int. I think your PC should be motivated to go out and buy one. Why fight a Rust Monster, when you can make him your friend and ride him as a mount!

Rust Monsters do not work that way. As the monster manual entry clearly states, a rust monster must make a successful touch attack in order to cause an object to rust.

Maybe it's a Rust Monster that took a Vow of Peace? That would make weapons break against him.

[Katrascythe]

My sympathies... having all of your stuff dissolve really blows. The one and only time I had to deal with a rust monster I was a wizard with nothing metal on me. There were several rust monsters in that fight, we killed all but one, and they other one became tame. I wanted to take it with us but the fighter and paladin had some objections...

[Yakk]

Look: in D&D, you cannot 'beat the DM'. The DM can beat you.

If you play the game as a tactical 'beat the DM' game, the DM can cheat.

---

If other players are making their characters do things like "decapitate the fallen guide and throw the corpse over the cliff", have an in-player discussion with both them and the GM. In real-life, that kind of behaviour would lead your character to leaving the party, and wouldn't promote party harmony.

Similarly, your character has to be able to bend to the group's needs. You need to help other party members _just because they are members of your party_.

There is a game convention that 'your player party are allies'. In order for this to happen in-character, the players of those characters should _work at making it happen_.

You can approach this with a bit of player detachment from your character. Your character, a paladin, is willing to have bad things happen. He is willing to help out others who don't help him. Your character's gold pieces isn't your score, or even what equipment your paladin has: it is how much _good_ your paladin can try to do is your score.

When your paladin loses equipment, view it as a challenge to doing more good.

And ask if the padding under your armor can count as padded armor. :-)

It is a different approach to the problem.

[Eldariel]

Look: in D&D, you cannot 'beat the DM'. The DM can beat you.

If you play the game as a tactical 'beat the DM' game, the DM can cheat.

Disclaimer: What follows is purely theoretical and should not be attempted or endorsed in any D&D game ever.

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Now, this is not technically true. A fight between DM and a character can be won. Yes, your DM is omnipotent and can cheat, but he does not have infinite skill and insight to implement that power. I've played a lot of rigged Starcraft UMS maps and won because my opponent just didn't have the skill to use his infinite money/abilities in a way that would allow him to stop himself from dying. Same can be applied to D&D. In other words, it's possible to play him into pulling punches and win within the rules of the game as long as you do so discreetly and have good enough Diplomacy/Charisma IRL.

The trick is, of course, to con him into allowing you to ascend into Pun-Punhood - it's possible as long as you go the slow way and don't involve Pazuzu (which would probably ring the alarm bells). Once you reach that point, it's completely impossible for him to kill you, including saying that "you lose your powers" because you can come up with the ability "you're immune to losing your powers" (and you can give yourself the ability to take infinite actions of any type whenever) and so on - basically, you can match anything he does in-game with an in-game effect that means it doesn't affect you. At that point it become a duel of imagination and provided you're more imaginative than your DM, you can defeat him by simply becoming the sole entity in the campaign world.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Disclaimer: What follows is purely theoretical and should not be attempted or endorsed in any D&D game ever.

Oh, man, Ive done this with out even creating pun-pun. Of course, my DM isn't a total jerk and neither am I, so...

I created a necromancer character, same level as the other guys. DM gets annoyed at my circle magic cheese and sends Saz Tham after me. ...He was at least 20 levels higher than me and immune to my most powerful spells aside. Epic duel ensures, after which my victorious character agrees to step aside and let my minion-ish character play.

@OP: Here's my solution: take levels in the Greyguard prestige class. Then, whenever your fellow players try to steal/whatever, beat them up and take their money. Tell them that they're lucky you are in a good mood

[Yakk]

That (you can beat the DM) presumes the DM is using a set of consistent rules you can rules-lawyer around. That isn't a safe assumption.

By the social contract, you can get up and leave -- and the DM can set the rules by fiat.

"No, it doesn't work" or "your trick stops working" is a valid 'move' by the DM. As is you getting up and leaving.

[ocato]

That sucks, I too have had the immense displeasure of being the only good guy in a group where everyone (DM included) seems to be pro-evil.

Also, this reminds me of a funny story. I was playing in a 2 PC game (this is pretty much my first year or two of D&D experience. We didn't have fancy 'groups' full of 'people'. We had a DM and two PCs) and we were in a sewer. I was a Wizard and my friend was a Cleric with a dabble of Paladin. He was always going on about how nearly impossible it was for him to get killed and how strong and powerful he was with his big thick armor, his awesome shield, and his big strong sword (he was pretty cocky, he often called for me to shoot area spells at the back of his head in order to clear out monsters).

So, Holy McHubris and I were searching this sewer, and we find a few skeletons and a makeshift stone door. The skeleton's journal explains how to operate the door and that it was constructed haphazardly to contain "the beast". Best we could tell, the door was a round chunk of stone that could be pushed/pulled along a groove to the side of the door. Apparently the people who made it had exceptional stone working skills and ample time to work with, despite their hastily written "oh god here it comes" journal entry.

So the Clericadin shoves this hunk of stone to the side, lifts his sword... and then grabs me by the collar. He gives me the moon-eyed stare of a crazy person and thrusts me into the room, shutting the door behind me. I am told that I can hear "It's all you buddy!" followed by hushed sobs coming from his side of the door.

You can probably guess what was in the room.

[Starbuck_II]

That sucks, I too have had the immense displeasure of being the only good guy in a group where everyone (DM included) seems to be pro-evil.

Also, this reminds me of a funny story. I was playing in a 2 PC game (this is pretty much my first year or two of D&D experience. We didn't have fancy 'groups' full of 'people'. We had a DM and two PCs) and we were in a sewer. I was a Wizard and my friend was a Cleric with a dabble of Paladin. He was always going on about how nearly impossible it was for him to get killed and how strong and powerful he was with his big thick armor, his awesome shield, and his big strong sword (he was pretty cocky, he often called for me to shoot area spells at the back of his head in order to clear out monsters).

So, Holy McHubris and I were searching this sewer, and we find a few skeletons and a makeshift stone door. The skeleton's journal explains how to operate the door and that it was constructed haphazardly to contain "the beast". Best we could tell, the door was a round chunk of stone that could be pushed/pulled along a groove to the side of the door. Apparently the people who made it had exceptional stone working skills and ample time to work with, despite their hastily written "oh god here it comes" journal entry.

So the Clericadin shoves this hunk of stone to the side, lifts his sword... and then grabs me by the collar. He gives me the moon-eyed stare of a crazy person and thrusts me into the room, shutting the door behind me. I am told that I can hear "It's all you buddy!" followed by hushed sobs coming from his side of the door.

You can probably guess what was in the room.

Nothing but hundreds of rubies and gold piles? (anticlimatic I know)

[Rhiannon87]

@OP: Here's my solution: take levels in the Greyguard prestige class. Then, whenever your fellow players try to steal/whatever, beat them up and take their money. Tell them that they're lucky you are in a good mood

Amen. This actually could make a lot of sense for a character, too. You're a righteous paladin surrounded by people with no moral compass, you're trying to do your best and get nothing for it... you decide the best way to do good is to bend the rules a bit. You get to rough up evildoers (which may or may not include your party at times) in the name of goodness and justice.

The pre-reqs are easy enough... you've already got 2 as a pally (must be LG and have lay on hands ability). You need 8 ranks in knowledge (religion) and 4 in sense motive, and you're all set. It's page 40 of Complete Scoundrel. Check it out.

[chiasaur11]

Seven hundred and sixty one armless and legless corpses?

[Parakirby]

Um... He's a level 3 fighter, not a paladin?

Also, I lost the 'lawful' alignment by starting ONE bar fight. (Low wisdom; the character wanted to go talk to some elves (I forget why) and a local got in his way and pretty much said no. ...To a large, muscular half-orc. I push him out of the way to continue my business aaand bar fight. To this day they won't drop that.) I still play him as fairly lawful good, however.

[Glyde]

I don't think that qualifies as falling from Lawful...

The problem here is that your DM is a maniac :\

[Eldariel]

That (you can beat the DM) presumes the DM is using a set of consistent rules you can rules-lawyer around. That isn't a safe assumption.

By the social contract, you can get up and leave -- and the DM can set the rules by fiat.

"No, it doesn't work" or "your trick stops working" is a valid 'move' by the DM. As is you getting up and leaving.

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Meh, it presumes that he doesn't realize what you just did - once it's done, it's too late to go back and once you have the power to do whatever you want in game, there's nothing he can do provided that you keep using those infinite powers to circumvent everything he says. He can parch his throat, he can never cover every one of the infinite options in existence. :P

[Rhiannon87]

Um... He's a level 3 fighter, not a paladin?

Also, I lost the 'lawful' alignment by starting ONE bar fight. (Low wisdom; the character wanted to go talk to some elves (I forget why) and a local got in his way and pretty much said no. ...To a large, muscular half-orc. I push him out of the way to continue my business aaand bar fight. To this day they won't drop that.) I still play him as fairly lawful good, however.

... My bad. Totally could've sworn I read pally somewhere in the first post.

And yeah, I'm starting to get the sense that you've got, no offense to your friend, a rather bad DM. One non-lawful action doesn't drop you from LG. Plus I have some rather serious problems with a DM unilaterally declaring a PC's alignment shift. And if your DM isn't working to give you some opportunities to make up the difference in loot between yourself and your less-than-good party members, that's more or less punishing you for playing someone ethical. You really should have a talk with your DM about some of this stuff, it seems pretty unreasonable and un-fun to me.

[Gamebird]

The problem is that you expect the game world to conform to your expectations of good and proper gaming. It's not going to, because the DM is running the game, not you. Look at the other players and what they're doing. Think about what they're doing that's getting rewarded. If you want the rewards the other players are getting, then act in a way that will gain those rewards.

Your moral code is ridiculous because obviously it is not a code that "works" in that game world. It's like being egalitarian in a world where the DM has decreed that the lower classes really are worthless scum and no amount of helping them out ever turns out well. In such a case, no degree of taking the high road will make the lower classes better. Instead, you must change your character so his worldview and morals match that of the DM's world.

If you can handle it, have your character begin acting like the other PCs (and any successful NPCs the DM has illustrated). You're in a group. Act like a member of the group and stop pretending you're better than the rest of them. Get down in the mud with them and start grabbing for that gold (or whatever else seems valuable).

Or find a new group.