[4e] Gimmick: Bards and optimizing Multiclass Versatility

[Gralamin]

This is an in progress guide. If you have suggestions or comments, reply to the thread.

Guide Notes

• This build is recommended as a 5th wheel in a group that already has at least one leader.
• Throughout this guide I will refer to a sample character posted at the end of this guide named Gimmick.

Goals

• Create a character that has every skill trained
• Create a character that is still effective in combat

Races
There are six main races that may be used for this build.

1. Doppelganger - Ability bonuses and racial traits work well with the idea of the build, and with how feat heavy this build is you're unlikely to feel you are missing much. A solid choice.
   Starting Array (Before Racial Mods): STR 13, CON 13, DEX 13, INT 13, WIS 13, CHA 14
   
2. Gnome - Quite alike to Doppelgangers. The Small Size can hurt, but their racial traits might be even better, and allow for some sniping. A Very good Choice.
   Starting Array (Before Racial Mods): STR 13, CON 13, DEX 13, INT 13, WIS 13, CHA 14
   
3. Half-Elf - Probably the best choice for the build, due to their focus on versatility.
   Starting Array (Before Racial Mods): STR 13, CON 13, DEX 13, INT 13, WIS 13, CHA 14
   
4. Human - Almost gives Half-Elf a Run for its money. However, the lack of a second stat increase hurts. If you can pull the build off though, Adroit Explorer is basically the Paragon Path for this build.
   Starting Array (Before Racial Mods): STR 13, CON 13, DEX 13, INT 13, WIS 13, CHA 14
   
5. Tiefling - Once again, Like Gnomes and Doppelgangers a good choice. Standard Tiefling optimization tricks can help the build.
   Starting Array (Before Racial Mods): STR 13, CON 13, DEX 13, INT 13, WIS 13, CHA 14
   
6. Warforged - Warforged are an odd choice. At the same time, they are awesome. Plus, you can name yourself something like Gimmick (Gimmick is indeed a warforged)
   Starting Array (Before Racial Mods): STR 11, CON 11, DEX 13, INT 13, WIS 13, CHA 16

Skills by Class
This is inherently a feat heavy build. Analyzing skill lists (Along with the next section) helps reduce the number of feats needed.

{table=head]Key Skill|Class Skill for...
Acrobatics|Avenger, Barbarian, Bard, Ranger, rogue
Arcana| Bard, Cleric, Druid, Invoker, Shaman, Sorcerer, Swordmage, warlock, wizard
Athletics| Avenger, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Fighter, ranger, rogue, Shaman, Sorcerer, Swordmage, Warden, warlord
Bluff| Bard, Rogue, Sorcerer, warlock
Diplomacy| Bard, Cleric, Druid, Invoker, paladin, Sorcerer, Swordmage, warlord, wizard
Dungeoneering| Bard, Ranger, rogue, Sorcerer, Warden, wizard
Endurance| Avenger, Barbarian, Druid, Fighter, Invoker, paladin, ranger, Shaman, Sorcerer, Swordmage, Warden, warlord
Heal| Bard, Avenger, Barbarian, Cleric, Druid, fighter, paladin, ranger, Shaman, Warden, warlord
History| Bard, Cleric, Druid, Invoker, paladin, Shaman, Sorcerer, Swordmage, warlock, warlord, wizard
Insight|Cleric, Bard, Druid, Invoker, paladin, rogue, Shaman, Sorcerer, Swordmage, warlock, wizard
Intimidate| Avenger, Barbarian, Bard, Fighter, Invoker, paladin, rogue, Sorcerer, Swordmage, Warden, warlock, warlord
Nature| Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Ranger, Shaman, Sorcerer, Warden, wizard
Perception| Avenger, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Ranger, rogue, Shaman, Warden
Religion| Avenger, Bard, Cleric, Invoker, paladin, Shaman, warlock, wizard
Stealth| Avenger, Ranger, rogue
Streetwise| Avenger, Bard, Fighter, rogue, warlock
Thievery|Rogue, warlock[/table]

Skills granted by Multiclass Feats by Class
Avenger - Religion only, like most of divine. Avenger has a nice benefit however, and is one of the best choices for getting religion.

Barbarian - Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Heal, Intimidate.

Cleric - Religion only. You also get healing word.

Druid - Nature only. You get one at-will power as an encounter. Skip.

Fighter - Athletics, Endurance, Heal, Intimidate, Streetwise. Battle Awareness and Student of the Sword both let you choose from the list, so consider this a x2.

Invoker - Religion Only. You get one at-will power as an encounter. Skip.

Paladin - Diplomacy, Endurance, Heal, History, Insight, Intimidate, Religion.

Ranger - Acrobatics, Athletics, Dungeoneering, Endurance, Heal, Nature, Perception, Stealth. Between Warrior of the Wild and Two-Blade Warrior, you can take two from this list, though Two-blade warrior won't help you much.

Rogue - Thievery from Sneak of Shadows. Bluff or intimidate from Sly Dodge. Stealth from Ruthless Efficiency.

Shaman - Nature. And a bunch of things including Speak with Spirits 1/day. Use this to grab Nature.

Sorcerer - Arcana. You already have Arcana. Skip.

Swordmage - Arcana. You already have Arcana. Skip.

Warden - Athletics, Dungeoneering, Endurance, Heal, Intimidate, Nature, Perception. And a 1/enc mark all adjacent.

Warlock - Arcana, Bluff, History, Insight, Intimidate, Religion, Streetwise, Thievery

Warlord - Athletics, Diplomacy, Endurance, Heal, History, Intimidate. You can grab this up to three times between Student of Battle, Inspiring Leader, and Tactical Leader.

Wizard - Arcana. You already have Arcana. Skip.

Choosing Starting Skills
As a Bard, you start off with 5 skills, one of which is Arcana. From your remaining list, you want 4 more skills. You have 13 other skills on your list, and to decide which to take, use a process of elimination.

Spoiler

Show

• Eliminate Religion and Nature. You can grab some nice benefits through MC for them. 11 left.
• Acrobatics is available from Barbarian, and Ranger. Do not eliminate yet.
• Athletics can be grabbed by a total of eight different feats. Drop it, 10 left.
• Bluff is only available from a Rogue Feat and the Warlock feat. Do not eliminate it yet.
• Diplomacy can be grabbed through Paladin or Warlord. Don't eliminate yet.
• Dungeoneering can be grabbed off Ranger and Warden. Don't Eliminate yet.
• Heal can be grabbed by 7 feats. Drop it, 9 left.
• History is available from 5 feats. Drop it, 8 left.
• Insight can be grabbed through Warlock or Paladin. Don't eliminate yet.
• Intimidate can be grabbed by 10 feats. Drop it, 7 left.
• Perception can be grabbed by Warden and Ranger. Don't drop it yet.
• Streetwise can be grabbed by Warlock and Fighter. Don't drop it yet.

At this point you have a list of:
Acrobatics, Bluff, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering, Insight, Perception, and Streetwise

These are shared between the following feats:

• Barbarian: Acrobatics (Also has: 3 things eliminated, and Endurance)
• Fighter: Streetwise (Also has: 3 things eliminated, and Endurance)
• Ranger: Acrobatics, Dungeoneering, Perception (Also has: 2 things that are eliminated other then nature and Endurance / Stealth)
• Rogue: Bluff (or Intimidate from this feat)
• Paladin: Diplomacy, Insight (Also has 3 things eliminated other then religion, and Endurance)
• Warlock: Insight, Bluff, Streetwise (Two things eliminated other then religion, and Thievery / Endurance)
• Warlord: Diplomacy (Also has 4 eliminated things, and Endurance)

From this data, I recommend grabbing: Acrobatics, Dungeoneering, Insight, Streetwise.

Multiclass Feats
Which ones you take mainly depend on what you want your character to do. When in doubt however, some good selections (Taken from Gimmick) are:

• Divine Bloodline
• Spirit Talker
• Sneak of Shadows
• Defender of the Wild (Perception)
• Pact Initiate (Bluff)
• Solider of Faith (Diplomacy)
• Warrior of the Wild (Stealth)
• Battle Awareness (Intimidate)
• Tactical Leader (Heal)
• Inspiring Leader (Endurance)
• Student of Battle (History)
• Beserker's Fury (Athletics)

Other Feats
Other feats you might consider picking up include:

• Weapon / Implement Expertise - For obvious reasons
• Bardic Knowledge - For even more skill bonuses.

As I hear, Arcane Power gives a feat that allows you to use Charisma with your multiclass powers, so definitely grab that. Otherwise build like any other character.

Paragon Paths
There are a ton of potential paragon paths (Every single one minus various racial and a few class). So many that I haven't had the chance to look at them all, nor rate their relative strength, so to begin with, here are some notes on three:

• Adroit Explorer - If your Human, this is THE Paragon Path to take.
• Warchanter - If you can get your Con high enough, this is a good choice.
• Daggermaster - If you're in melee, critting from 18-20 is nice.

Epic Destinies
There are also a fair number of Epic Destinies. However if you're following this guide, why would you not take Eternal Seeker?

On Equipment
So you've multiclassed out and have taken Eternal Seeker. Now that you're taking powers from other classes, you realize you don't have the equipment for it. What do you do?
The Trick is to focus on one type of weapon and/or Implement. Take a look at the classes you want to get your multiclass powers from, and try to find a common implement or weapon you have proficiency with. A rather nice combo is grabbing a Pact Dagger. This is useable by all [w] based classes, esp. Rogues, as well as Sorcerers, Swordmages, and Warlocks.

Other equipment worth getting is:

• Anything that gives skill bonuses
• Anything that gives an unexpected ability. Surprising your opponent is a good thing
• Anything you'd want as a Bard anyway.

Sample Character: Gimmick
Gimmick is a Warforged Bard. I have my build detail in the spoiler below, or you can simply download his Character Builder file. Gimmick's file comes with a sample "Wish list" of items already attached to him. Please note that the order he took feats in may not be the order I'd recommend taking them.

Spoiler

Show

Warforged Bard
Final Ability scores: STR 15, CON 20, DEX 15, INT 15, WIS 16, CHA 24.
Starting Skills: Arcana, Acrobatics, Dungeoneering, Insight, Streetwise
Final Skills: All

Feats:
1) Weapon Expertise (Light Blade)
2) Bardic Knowledge
4) Spirit Talker
6) Divine Bloodline
8) Pact Initiate
10) Sneak of Shadows
11) Tactical Leader
12) Warrior of the Wild
14) Battle Awareness
16) Defender of the Wild
18) Solider of the Faith
20) Berserker's Fury
21) Student of Battle
22) Inspiring Leader
24) Robust Defences
26) Agile Athlete
28) Unfettered Stride
30) Secure Encampment

Powers:
W1) War Song Strike
W1) Guiding Strike
E1) Inspiring Refrain
D1) Slayer's Song
U2) Inspire Competence
E3) Charger's Call
D5) Word of Mystic Warding
U6) Ode to Sacrifice
E7) Scorpion's Claw Strike
D9) Hymn of the Daring Rescue
U10) Veil
E13) Earthquake Strike
D15) Dance of Biting Wind
U16) Song of the Soul Harvest
E17) Song of Summons
D19) Increasing the Temp
U22) Elegy Unwritten
E23) Black Breath (Sorcerer)
D25) Words of Chaos (Sorcerer)
E27) Curse of the Fey King (Warlock)
E29) Hero's Beacon
Eternal Seeker: Cloud Chariot
Spirit Talker: Spirit Fangs

Equipment Wish List
Assasinbane Pitmal Armor +6
Pact Blade Dagger +6
Epic Iron Armbands of Power
Epic Guildmaster's Gloves
Epic Dynamic Belt
Epic Boots of Stealth
Epic Sorrowsworn Ring
Epic Ring of Heroic Insight
Epic Laurel Circlet
Cloak of the Chirugeon +6
Epic Dragonscale Light Shield

[Thajocoth]

"Multiclass Versatility
You can choose class-specific multiclass feats from
more than one class."

One feat per class would still be a limitation here, so you can't have Inspiring Leader AND Tactical Leader as those are both Multiclass: Warlord.

-----

However, there are additional multiclasses feats that are, oddly, not with any class in Dragon 373:

Bravo [Multiclass Bravo]
Gains Intimidate
Once per encounter an enemy you choose is easier for you to hit until the end of your next turn, and they remain your target until the encounter ends or they die.

Cutthroat
[Multiclass Cutthroat]
Requires Bluff, gains Stealth
Diversions to hide are a minor

Poisoner
[Multiclass Poisoner]
Requires Dungeoneering or Nature, gains Thievery
Allows your poison attacks to penetrate resistance

[Gralamin]

"Multiclass Versatility
You can choose class-specific multiclass feats from
more than one class."

One feat per class would still be a limitation here, so you can't have Inspiring Leader AND Tactical Leader as those are both Multiclass: Warlord.

-----

However, there are additional multiclasses feats that are, oddly, not with any class in Dragon 373:

Bravo [Multiclass Bravo]
Gains Intimidate
Once per encounter an enemy you choose is easier for you to hit until the end of your next turn, and they remain your target until the encounter ends or they die.

Cutthroat
[Multiclass Cutthroat]
Requires Bluff, gains Stealth
Diversions to hide are a minor

Poisoner
[Multiclass Poisoner]
Requires Dungeoneering or Nature, gains Thievery
Allows your poison attacks to penetrate resistance

Your incorrect, because your looking at the ability rather then the rules themselves for multiclassing. Players Handbook page 208 clearly states there are two restrictions in choice of multiclass feats:
1) You can't take a multiclass feat for your own class (So Bard Can't multiclass into Bard)
2) Once you take a multiclass feat, You can't take a class-specific multiclass feat for a different class. (So if you take Warlord, you can take as many Warlord Multiclass feats as you want, but you can't take anything else)

Multiclass Versatility straight out removes requirement #2.

Edit: As For Weapon Styles, Overall the benefits you gain aren't as good as the benefits for the class. Weapon styles are meant for improving your build and specializing in a fighting style, rather then expanding your versatility. Also, it could be argued that Weapon Styles violates the requirements for Multiclass Versatility, so its better to outright avoid them.

[Kurald Galain]

If you're going Daggermaster, consider that it probably also works with the sorcerer's Dagger implement. So it may be viable to apply this to all your attacks.

[ocato]

You're overlooking another thing. Once you take a multiclass feat, you count as that class for feats, Paragon Paths, etc.

So, you take Warlord MC feat #1, for the purpose of feats et al, you count as a Bard and a Warlord. Therefore you cannot take multiclass feats for your own class(es): Bard and Warlord.

[Tengu_temp]

I don't see the point of starting with such equal ability scores - +1 to this and that skill is not worth losing points in your primary and/or secondary stat. You can be a jack of all trades without being equally good in all of them.

[Izmir Stinger]

You're overlooking another thing. Once you take a multiclass feat, you count as that class for feats, Paragon Paths, etc.

So, you take Warlord MC feat #1, for the purpose of feats et al, you count as a Bard and a Warlord. Therefore you cannot take multiclass feats for your own class(es): Bard and Warlord.

Character Builder says it is kosher to take multiple Multiclass feats as long as they are all from the same class.

[ocato]

Character Builder says it is kosher to take multiple Multiclass feats as long as they are all from the same class.

General consensus is that the Character Builder was programmed by drunken monkeys and is riddled with all sorts of mistakes. If you can show me something in the text, FAQ, or Errata that disagrees, I will gladly consider changing my position. Unfortunately the Character Builder is not reputable enough to qualify.

[Gralamin]

General consensus is that the Character Builder was programmed by drunken monkeys and is riddled with all sorts of mistakes. If you can show me something in the text, FAQ, or Errata that disagrees, I will gladly consider changing my position. Unfortunately the Character Builder is not reputable enough to qualify.

Your incorrect. The rules for Multiclassing state:

Class-Specific Feats
There are two restrictions on your choice of a
class-specific multiclass feat. First, you can’t take a
multiclass feat for your own class. Second, once you
take a multiclass feat, you can’t take a class-specific
feat for a different class. You can dabble in a second
class but not a third.
A character who has taken a class-specific multiclass
feat counts as a member of that class for the purpose of
meeting prerequisites for taking other feats

Empathis mine. The First Requirement is overrided by the second. In addition, the other here is clearly meant to refer to other feats then multi-class feats. Look at feats like Battle Acumen from MP. Its CLEARLY labeled[Multiclass Fighter], and has a requirement of "Another Multiclass Fighter Feat". According to you, it should be impossible to take it.

I don't see the point of starting with such equal ability scores - +1 to this and that skill is not worth losing points in your primary and/or secondary stat. You can be a jack of all trades without being equally good in all of them.

You need a 13 in score to qualify for the multiclass feats. Since thats the entire point of this build...
You could streamline it I guess. Drop a 12 in 3 scores, a 13 in another, and the rest in your primary / secondary scores. Grab All the Multiclass feats you can in Heroic that follow that, and then grab more in Paragon once all your scores have increased.

[ocato]

I was referring to different base multiclass feats for the same class, such as Ruthless Efficiency (MP) vs Sneak of Shadows (PHB), but I see what you mean. Having reread the Martial Power multiclass feat section, it seems clear that they intended for you to take as many multiclass feats towards one other class as you wish.

I simply thought that their goal was to limit a character from gaining multiple class features through multiclass feats. However, upon giving this another look, there's no real reason to limit multiclassing in this manner.