Advice on running the Tomb of Horrors

[Olo Demonsbane]

All right, Im planning on running the Tomb of Horrors for myself and a friend (we always have a DMPC). This is my first time trying it, so any advice would be helpfull.

Pre-thanks for your help.

[Katrascythe]

If your players come with out of game knowledge... don't be too harsh on them. It might help them survive a little bit longer.

Also, make sure everyone has at least one backup character. The chances of them making it through on one character are small at best, even if they are being cautious to the point of paranoia.

[VirOath]

Personally I think when the Dm drops the ToH book on the table it opens the door to legal cheese of all flavors. I'd say even PunPun if I had any idea what that was >.<

But in that case, it's a survival trait rather than munchkin...

Yes, don't punish out of character knowledge, don't punish logical thoughts on things, and maybe a little divine intervention would help. And print extra unused character sheets. It's close up there with the phrase "It's only the temple of Elemental Evil..."

[streakster]

Heavy spoiler warning (also profanity, to a degree.) Still, this does give a nice idea of what you'll be facing.

Here.

TIPS:

-Don't panic.

-Allow anything - not even cheese can save you now.

-Have lots of backup characters, or run on the "My identical brother shows up to replace me" variant.

-Be very careful with your DMPC - don't spoil any surprises.

-Get some more players, if possible - it's even more deadly fun in groups.

-You know what? I take it back. You should panic.

EDIT: Also, the advice I always give to anyone who asks me about this module: You're all going to die.

[The Glyphstone]

It's going to be really, really, hard if you're also one of the players - 90% of the challenge in ToH is the fact that you don't know what is coming, and in the Tome, what you don't know is coming WILL kill you. As both the DM and the player, you have the choice of deliberately avoiding the traps you know are there or deliberately walking into them, both of which are metagamey and boring.

Unless, however, you are running it quite literally "blind'', as in you haven't even opened the adventure yet, and run it room-by-room as you explore. that would be very cool.

[Ravens_cry]

*reads article*
Gygax, may he rest in peace, was an absolute **** of a DM.
He may have started the whole business, but damn!

[chiasaur11]

*reads article*
Gygax, may he rest in peace, was an absolute **** of a DM.
He may have started the whole business, but damn!

The phrase you are looking for is either genius, or...

***!**!****!

To be fair, ToH was built for tourney play.

[BlueWizard]

My players refused to play it.

I even adapted it to 3.5.

[chiasaur11]

My players refused to play it.

I even adapted it to 3.5.

I trust you mocked them with a trusty Bluth family chicken dance?

[Olo Demonsbane]

VirOath: Im playing an Archivist that can cast any spell in any book, and my friend...I don't know what hes playing, but last campaign he dipliomanced and then dominated a god. A bound, weakened, god, but still a god.

Katrascythe: Im giving them a free ring of true ressurection, and my character can raise...but still, yeah, back ups are a nessceity.

[bosssmiley]

My players refused to play it.
I even adapted it to 3.5.

Bah! Your players are small and weak. Even marshmallow peeps are manlier than they!
Push your players into the microwave and game with the peeps instead. Peeps do not fear the Tomb of Horrors.

ToH can be typified by one phrase:

"So, no save?"
"No save."

[Jack_Simth]

All right, Im planning on running the Tomb of Horrors for myself and a friend (we always have a DMPC). This is my first time trying it, so any advice would be helpfull.

Pre-thanks for your help.

Have the player run the DMPC. Otherwise, you run into a painful OOC Knowledge issue on the traps.

Do note that the Tomb of Horrors is designed to kill characters. If everyone in the party is capable of surviving without air, the Reserve Wizard (can also be done with a Cleric, but it's easier with a Wizard; almost trivial with a careful Warlock) can deal with all the traps if he follows proper magical Anti-Trap protocol (most the traps are passive, none of them are set up to hide their nature from spells), while the Rogue trying to deal with traps is in trouble. That still, however, leaves the non-negotiable opponents, which are both under-CR'd and still listed as considerably above the expected party level for the module.

There's a couple of critters that are pretty much unbeatable without OOC knowledge - especially the last one, it's weakness is a particular spell with a particular choice that isn't normally an option for that spell (it's a holdover from an earlier version of a spell by the same name).

You might try it as a Gestalt game. Do make sure they bring several replacement characters, though.

[Renx]

I'd suggest as little rules cajolery as possible. While cheese is good here IF your peeps like it, if they don't you'll probably get one or two insane characters and some regular ones.

Tomb of Horrors at its best (or worst) is basically loads of 'rocks fall, everyone dies' in a row. Place a 10' pole salesman in front of the Tomb, that should give them hints.

One way to run it is indeed with 'loads of lives' -- give the Cleric 5 scrolls of Raise Dead and 5 scrolls of Resurrection.

Oh. Don't give the wizard more than one Disintegrate per day.

[Lamech]

There's a couple of critters that are pretty much unbeatable without OOC knowledge - especially the last one, it's weakness is a particular spell with a particular choice that isn't normally an option for that spell (it's a holdover from an earlier version of a spell by the same name).

I was under the impression was its main weakness was two orb spells. Or one if we want to be mean with metamagic. You know what happens normally when they don't overcome spell resistance?

[TheLogman]

I ran it last summer. My group is a little silly, so I decided not to run it too serious. I made sure each of the players had a boost of some kind that gave them an advantage, advise them if they are inexperienced. Provide a few free Resurrections. Reward creative thinking, provide hints. There is a part in the Tomb where you have to insert a sword into the door, and one of the characters was always throwing shurikens at things, so I counted that as solving the puzzle.

As for the Final Boss, I allowed a DC 25 Knowledge (Religion) or (Arcane) to find the spells the Boss was weak to. When I listed the spells, I said the final one was "A biting of its eye (The spell eyebite". The silliest of the characters then proclaimed: "I bite his eye!" I ruled that biting someone's eye required a touch attack, and allowed the boss a save, and dealt a weakened version of eyebite. The next few minutes were a series of biting of the Boss' eyes by the members of the party. It was awesome, and lots of fun, which is the most important part. It was still high stakes though, because that thing insta-kills easy.

Also, suggest certain spells or equipment to help them out.

I know it sounds like I made the thing too easy, but my group likes to have fun, and we didn't have time for an extended session, so I toned it down a bit and made sure everyone had fun.

Plus I'm pretty sure everyone died at least one. Some of those traps are crazy hard and deadly.

It was awesome.

[Olo Demonsbane]

From this, I have gathered that the Tomb is very very very difficult. I plan on giving the characters each a ring of true ressurection (3 uses). We also have an Artificer who can make all of the parties equipment for 1/3 cost, basically giving us x3 WBL. Plus, my character is a summoner...

My friend will play the DMPC in most non combat situations. I will use him to give hints as nessescary.

We can usually take care of ourselves. I was two level 10 guys and he was level 18, and we did a level 18 module that is highly overpowered (according to him, it was Bastion of Broken Souls). The only time any of us died was during a fight against 3 balors when he ruled that Implosion worked against objects, and thus undead

The Logman: Thanks for the advice. Ill probably give a lot of hints, as well as letting knowledge checks help on some of the items and stuff...its kinda insane. Plus, creative thinking = more fun = cookies = Easier time

[Jack_Simth]

I was under the impression was its main weakness was two orb spells. Or one if we want to be mean with metamagic. You know what happens normally when they don't overcome spell resistance?

Let me amend: "OOC knowledge (or overpowered effects for the level)"

[Lord Loss]

A good way to learn about how THE TOMB OF HORRORS WIL MASSACRE YOUR PLAYERS FAVORITE PCS is to go to the wizards site. Go to 3.5 Archives, go to Articles section, Click Celebrity Game Table. One of them explains it*:D. Have fun :D.

Playing The tomb of Horrors ? DONT DO IT JIMMY!

[sleepy]

If your PC foolishly forgets to search for traps at any point ever, ask for his search check instead of killing him with whatever he just bumped into. "Rocks fall, everyone dies" can literally occur before you even find the entrance.

Bringing 101 utility scrolls in preparation for any concievable disaster, no matter how absurd or unlikely such a scenario may seem, is wise. Consider buying a selection with your DMPC, and suggesting in-character that the two of you browse them and brainstorm (without stealing your PC's thunder by coming up with the genius plan yourself) when your PC becomes stumped or suggests a particularly half-baked plan. Don't bother planning out which ones might be useful where, just grab a bunch and let your PC have a eureka moment or two.

Have frequent or continual access to detect magic.

Before the game, read the poems over (and over) until you grasp the hidden message, and during the game reading, use inflection carefully to help suggest the correct interpretation. There's no how-to guide written on the walls, but considering it strictly flavour text reduces your chances from poor to dreadful.


If you want to metagame hardcore, your best resources are probably flight and an elemental summoning reserve feat (send streams of infinite cannon fodder to fish out all the traps). Constant use of either of these is not in the spirit of the module, though.

[Jack_Simth]

If you want to metagame hardcore, your best resources are probably flight and an elemental summoning reserve feat (send streams of infinite cannon fodder to fish out all the traps). Constant use of either of these is not in the spirit of the module, though.

The spirit of the module is "find this riddle, interpret it EXACTLY as the module-creator intended, or 'rocks fall, everyone dies'. Even if you do interpret it EXACTLY as the module-creator intended, there's STILL a fair chance of 'rocks fall, everyone dies'". Or the shorter version of the spirit of The Tomb of Horrors: "DM hates players"

But yes - if you're going to play in the Tomb of Horrors, you want three abilities in the party:
1) The elemental Summoning Reserve Feat (or another method to Summon criters at-will)
2) Permanancied Arcane Sight
3) Ranged Direct-damage that affects objects well, usable at-will
Additionally, everyone needs a method by which to survive without air (there's one particular trap the above doesn't help with). Further, everyone needs to play a class where an alignment reversal (as with the Helm of Opposite Alignment) doesn't cause them to lose class features. E.g., a Lawful-Neutral Hexblade, a Neutral-Good Druid, a Wizard of any alignment, and so on - no True Neutral clerics or Druids, no LG Paladins.

If you've got that, you can deal with the traps (by having summons be trap-fodder, demolishing the dungeon, and not sticking yourself into anything you can't see through). That still leaves you with the monsters that are under-CR'd, and have a listed CR significantly above the level of the party the module is theoretically built for.

[DrizztFan24]

Myself and 3 other players (other players all under the age of 13) ran the Tomb with our incredibly lethal DM. I am the oldest player at 17 with a 13, 12, and 10 year old. Incredibly unoptimized group and we all survived, no cheats, no resets. My character was even a beguiler/assassin, thus become incredibly useless as a damage dealer and enchanter.

I suggest the arcane sight trick, as mentioned above, and spiderclimb. I managed to save my party from a rather toasty ride thanks to having extended spiderclimb.

[Maltore]

We played it with three gestalt characters, a druid/sorceress, a paladin/favored soul and a monk/rogue. We only had one death, all the way at the beginning, because the creature got some lucky rolls.

My advice (from an ex-player point of view) would be to be prepared to come up with interesting reactions if your players do something the module doesn't foresee. My greatest disappointment was when my paladin cast Hallow in a certain place with an altar, and at first our DM's reaction was "uhm... nothing happens". After literally spending hours trying to "correct" what's wrong in that room, he finally admitted that it was just descriptive, and not a feature. Ugh. We went back to the village to buy pots of paint at that time.

My best memory of the module was our druid using several castings of Stone Shape on all the ugly faces to make them into clowns. My worst memory is of countless rooms with nothing in them but the same stupid trap over and over and over and over so nobody got to do anything except for the rogue. Because of one particular feature of those traps, in the end I decided to take my adamantium heavy mace and just bash out 1 cube foot of wall every time. And then there were the countless pieces of useless loot.

It was one of the most boring modules I've ever played.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Yeah, permanancied arcane sight is a must.

These last two posters seem to think the module was easy...what did you do different from the others? Was your DM more leniant?

[Maltore]

Hmm. Things that made it easier for us:

* Our rogue had a godly search check
* We had all cranked up our saves to be as high as possible
* We didn't do anything unbuffed
* We had a bunch of 10-foot poles, and didn't touch anything without them
* Phylactery of Faithfulness
* Detect Evil at will, always, everywhere, 60ft far
* We had a general attitude of "nothing in here can be trusted" and "smite first, loot later"
* The druid/sorceress, her familiar and her animal companion were always climbing on the walls/ceilings or flying
* If it casts, it has a lousy grapple check; if it's pinned, it can't cast
* Improved Turning, Hallow and really high charisma

[DrizztFan24]

Yeah, permanancied arcane sight is a must.

These last two posters seem to think the module was easy...what did you do different from the others? Was your DM more leniant?

The arcane sight and walking across the walls. If the dm is a stickler use telescopic poles. They even extend to twelves feet and thus can investigate a square further. Otherwise we searched everything and cast as little crazy magic as possible. And boosting saves...they helped but we didn't run into many save-or-death...mostly puzzles.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Thanks, both of you!

When I told my friend what to expect, along with what Im making heres what he said:

Im making a Tomb Breaker

Is that some class or something? Or is it just what you call a high level rougeish character?

If it casts, it has a lousy grapple check; if it's pinned, it can't cast

Thats one of my favorite philosophies

[Seffbasilisk]

I'd recommend reading the module through completely a few times beforehand, passing notes when the party splits up, and altering a few details.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Ive read it through 4 times so far...

What would you recomend changing?