Caster PrC thought

[Sstoopidtallkid]

How much would it help, if all PrCs that advanced casting, did so at a rate of 1 CL per 2 levels? My thought is that while it won't render them useless, it will at least impose a cost for taking that PrC over going straight Wizard. It's not huge(at level 13, you've spent one feat to negate it), but at least you wouldn't see so many builds of Wizard 3/Master Specialist 2/PRC X.

[erikun]

Unless the abilities are already quite broken (Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil comes to mind), halfing caster levels would render the class quite useless. Do you want to be a wizard trying to fight a Balor with Ice Storm and a caster level of 10?

More seriously, one of the big problems with spellcasters in 3.5e is that anything which doesn't give caster levels interferes with their ability to actually cast spells. It's like a PrC that won't give BAB to a fighter.

[MeklorIlavator]

Well, one problem is that most of them aren't worth it now. Though, it does remind me of something I've been toying with. Effectively, you gain new spells/slots as normal, but you don't gain the extra caster level(in other words, the exact opposite of Practiced spellcaster). Also, this would invoke the house rule that you can cast the spells at a lower caster level than they would normally require. I'd probably make it so that saves are similarly reduced. Perhaps something like for every caster level below it's normal maximum, you gain a cumulative -1 to saves and duration.

[Chronos]

Well, one problem is that most of them aren't worth it now. Though, it does remind me of something I've been toying with. Effectively, you gain new spells/slots as normal, but you don't gain the extra caster level(in other words, the exact opposite of Practiced spellcaster).

I think this is exactly what the OP was suggesting.

[lsfreak]

It barely effects the best of the casters (wizards, clerics, druids, artificers), while harming bards, sorcerers, and other second-tier casters. I think that's the opposite of what you're going for.

[RS14]

I'm reserving judgment until somebody explains for me what feat negates the lost caster levels.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I'm reserving judgment until somebody explains for me what feat negates the lost caster levels.

Practiced Spellcaster.

And you'd be at CL 13 or 17 at level 20, assuming you PrCd out at 6th. This isn't designed to render casters useless or weaker, it's to impose a cost for taking a PrC beyond the entry requirements. There is currently no reason for a Wizard to go Wiz 20 rather than Wiz 5/Master Specialist 10/Archmage 5. I'd like to change that, but leave them worthwhile.

And yes, I mean you lose CL, but continue to gain spells per day and new spell levels. It's weakening one of the 3 things that advances spellcasting, not crushing all 3.

[MeklorIlavator]

Ah, my mistake.

[Jack_Simth]

Perhaps lost spell slots? The first level of a PrC costs you one of your highest level spell slots (and this migrates so it's always one spell slot of your highest level if you later gain an additional level of spells), the second level of the PrC costs you one of your second highest level spell slots (again, migrating), the third level of the PrC costs you one of your third-highest level spell slots (migrating, just like the rest), and so on; when you hit a level of the PrC that does not advance spellcasting, lost spell slots from that PrC are returned, and you're not subject to further spell slot loss from that particular PrC. If you have more than one PrC, they're tracked seperately (so the Wizard-5/Mindbender-1/Master Specialist-2, with an effective Wizard level of 8 for spellcasting, is losing two 4th level spell slots (one for Mindbender-1, one for Master Specialist-1), and one 3rd level spell slot (for Master Specialist-2). If he takes another level of Mindbender, he regains the lost 4th level spell slot from Mindbender (as Mindbender-2 doesn't advance spellcasting). If he thereafter takes another level of Mindbender (Mindbender-3 advances spellcasting, putting this 10th-level character up to 9th level Wizard casting), his lost spell slots from Master Specialist 1 and 2 switch from 3rd and 4th level spell slots to 4th and 5th level spell slots.

If you go with a PrC, then continuing in it is costly, but becomes progressively less so as you go on. If you take as many Full Casting PrC's as you can find, you'll find yourself without your top-tier of spells.

[sonofzeal]

My houserule - any casting PrC that's remotely functional gets no advancement for the first level, either through straight removing it (Wild Mage, Alienist, Master Specialist) or by rearranging the missing levels (Fatespinner, Mindbender). Any casting PrC that's actually good loses at least one more, at 6th level (IotSV, Fiend-blooded, Sentinel of Bharrai). That meanst some are still good bargains, but there's now a solid incentive to go Wiz20. It's also a natural change inside the system, using an old idea (partial casting) to improve balance.