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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Thanatos 51-50's Avatar

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    Default [4E] Pimp my Shadar-kai

    Why, hello there, Playground!

    I have recently got my greedy hands and eyes a dragon magazine artcile featureing the Shadar-kai, which gives it a power-up to put the race more on par with the PhB races. (Choose a language! Winterkin is even better! Shadow Jaunt is still awesome!), and of course, the two new racial paragon paths and the Epic Destiny (One of the PPs is looking mighty tempting, too!).
    And so, upon recieving this suppliment (which should be relativly easy to get my DM to accept), my previously pretty solid character concept has come under scrutiny by me, and I am faced, coming up on level 4 pretty soon, with a choice.

    Do I keep going the path I had planned?
    Or do I go crazy with the Dragon Article?

    Currently, we have:

    Artful Dodger-Style Shadar-Kai Rogue. Level 3.

    Dex: 18
    Cha: 16
    Int: 10
    Str: 10

    No other really important attributes.
    Power selection favours melee combat, with only two powers usable at range (Easy Target and Sly Flourish).

    Feats:
    Superior Weapon Proficency (Rapier)
    Skill Focus (Stealth)

    The old plan was to flip a coin to choose between Weapon Mastery (Light Blade) and Backstabber, select the other one at level 6, and go into the Raven Herald Paragon Path (Marital Power).

    The new one would be to re-train SWP (Rapier) for the Spiked Chain feat presented in the article
    Spiked Chain (Something or other, to be honest, I don't recall the full name):
    GAIN: Proficency with the Spiked Chain, treat it as a light blade and a double weapon (2d4/2d4). This is a Multiclass Feat.
    Pre-requiste: Shadar-Kai, Dex 13+

    And then taking the Spiked Chain Novice Feat for my lvl 4 feat. (Which is your basic power-swap feat, with a specific power allowing you to knock the enemy prone and lside it two squares with you're using a spiked chain. Damage with this feat increases 1|W| per tier, and following the multi-class path all the through and take the "Abiding Reapon" Paragon Path.

    Thoughts? Comments? Opinions? Awesome optimizations that I missed? A way to take the best of Both Worlds?
    NaNoWriMo Beat Me
    Red and the Phasmavore by LCP

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Thajocoth's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4E] Pimp my Shadar-kai

    Rapier is 1d8 and the spiked chain is 2d4. The averages are 4.5 and 5 respectively. The spiked chain also has reach. Why would you wield Rapiers over a Spiked Chain?

    Especially when it makes so much sense for you as a Shadar-Kai. (They favor the Spiked Chain.)
    Last edited by Thajocoth; 2009-04-24 at 05:04 PM.
    Avatar by me. It's Incendius Darkscale, a Good Dragonborn Dragon Sorcerer, Demonskin Adept, Prince of Hell, worshiper of the Platinum Dragon (Bahamut), specializing in Fire and Lightning, wielding a staff in each hand.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Thanatos 51-50's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4E] Pimp my Shadar-kai

    Rapiers are lighter and iconic for the swashbuckler (Which was, admittidly, my original conept until I started becoming Awesome Party Leader Man and got continually less swashbucklery.)

    Also, the rapier is a one-handed weapon, giving me a free hand to use utility powers like Magpie Filch and Garrote Grip if I so decide to use them.
    NaNoWriMo Beat Me
    Red and the Phasmavore by LCP

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [4E] Pimp my Shadar-kai

    Also, unless you grab Distant Advantage you'll still need to be adjacent to someone most of the time if you want to sneak attack them.

    Something to think about... the Spiked Chain feats + Artful Dodger Rogue is probably the closest thing to a martial controller. My suggestion would be to really make use of this and grab as many controller-esque powers as you can. The spiked chain daily attack fits under this pretty well, as does the utility power (though rogues may have nicer ones, I can't think of anything off the top of my head) if you take melee training (which is nice to have anyway if you're going to be in melee)

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Thanatos 51-50's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4E] Pimp my Shadar-kai

    Quote Originally Posted by Asbestos View Post
    Also, unless you grab Distant Advantage you'll still need to be adjacent to someone most of the time if you want to sneak attack them.
    Only if you're grabbing CA off of flanks, only, and you can't flank a creature at reach without a power or a feat (I haven't seen any feats to that effect, yet.) I'll have to grab my combat advantage elsewhere (Which I tend to do, anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by Asbestos View Post
    Something to think about... the Spiked Chain feats + Artful Dodger Rogue is probably the closest thing to a martial controller. My suggestion would be to really make use of this and grab as many controller-esque powers as you can. The spiked chain daily attack fits under this pretty well, as does the utility power (though rogues may have nicer ones, I can't think of anything off the top of my head) if you take melee training (which is nice to have anyway if you're going to be in melee)
    Rogues make nice secondary controllers, already, huh? The only reason for Melee training is for making Melee basic attacks.

    Possible Spiked Chain re-train:
    Ditch the Rapier Prof; take Multiclass Spiked Chain
    Take the Novice Power.
    Re-train Stealth Focus into Light Blade Weapon Mastery @ lvl 5. (Barring no other magical shenagins, this will change my +18 check into a +15 check, which is still nothing to scoff at.
    6: Melee Training (Dexterity)
    8: Utility Spiked Chain Power
    10: Daily Spiked Chain Power
    11: Backstabber (Abiding Reaper PP)

    Keep on Fencin':
    4: Light Blade Mastery
    5: Stealth Focus -> Backstabber
    6: Melee Training (Dexterity)
    8: Benighted Birthright
    10/11: ??? (Raven Herald PP)
    NaNoWriMo Beat Me
    Red and the Phasmavore by LCP

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [4E] Pimp my Shadar-kai

    Yeah, that's true about melee training. If you don't care for melee basic attacks then consider picking up something like TWF/TWD instead of melee training/chain utility.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Thanatos 51-50's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4E] Pimp my Shadar-kai

    TWF/TWD is looking decent, but, if I'm not mistaken, the TWF bonus doesn't stack with Weapon Mastery, which makes it a wasted feat to get a paltry +1 to AC, of all defenses.
    Not a worthwhile investment.
    NaNoWriMo Beat Me
    Red and the Phasmavore by LCP

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [4E] Pimp my Shadar-kai

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos 51-50 View Post
    TWF/TWD is looking decent, but, if I'm not mistaken, the TWF bonus doesn't stack with Weapon Mastery, which makes it a wasted feat to get a paltry +1 to AC, of all defenses.
    Not a worthwhile investment.
    TWF is an untyped bonus to damage and TWD grants a bonus to AC and Ref (like a light shield)

    Also it opens up TWAmbush in paragon that lets you, when you have a weapon in each hand and attack an enemy that you have combat advantage against, treat your primary weapon as having the brutal 1 property. 2d4 brutal 1... probably the only rogue weapon that TWA is really worthwhile with.
    Last edited by Asbestos; 2009-04-24 at 10:11 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Thajocoth's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4E] Pimp my Shadar-kai

    If you have reach, you do not have to be adjacent to flank. The adjacent square you're attacking through counts for your flank. You won't, however, provide a flank to others without being adjacent. At least, this is how my group has interpreted the flanking rules.

    For a more swashbucklerey sort though, definitely the Rapier. RP is more important than any optimization imo.
    Avatar by me. It's Incendius Darkscale, a Good Dragonborn Dragon Sorcerer, Demonskin Adept, Prince of Hell, worshiper of the Platinum Dragon (Bahamut), specializing in Fire and Lightning, wielding a staff in each hand.

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