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    Default How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    What are the ways to qualify for beholder mage without actually being a beholder?

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Technically getting two Polymorph Any Objects on you with Metamorphic Transfer/Assume Supernatural Ability on you works. Two castings of Polymorph Any Object make the second one permanent and Assume/Transfer give you an Anti-Magic Eye, which you need to put out to qualify.

    Of course, you could put the vestigial eye out anyways and a DM might let you by with that, but if not, use Assume/Transfer. You may need a second copy of the said abilities to get the Eye Stalks, again depending on rulings on whether or not they're necessary.


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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    A prerequisite is Race: Beholder, so none.

    If you meant without starting as a beholder, it's easy. Be any humanoid race, and get enough money to turn yourself into an Elan (abberation) with Polymorph Any Object. Since this is a +9 duration factor (same kingdom, same size, same Int), it's permanent. Now, as an Elan, get another Polymorph Any Object into a Beholder - same kingdom, same class, same Int gives you a +9 duration factor again, and you are now a beholder.

    EDIT: Ninajed, what he said.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2009-04-26 at 10:21 PM.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Goddamn, that's cheesy.
    Thanks you guys.
    Last edited by Myrmex; 2009-04-26 at 10:28 PM.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Beholder Mage is cheesy, yeah.

    Beholder Mage/Ur-Priest/Mystic Theurge, on the other hand....

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Beholder Mage is a class designed for DMs who want to kill off their entire party, but don't have the intellectual honesty to just say "Rocks fall everyone dies".
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Beholder Mage is a class designed for DMs who want to kill off their entire party, but don't have the intellectual honesty to just say "Rocks fall everyone dies".
    If you have a weak party, sure. Otherwise it presents an easy and straight forward way to keep up with the party's actions/round with a single monster encounter.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Remember that the beholder has access to all the same optimization tricks and overpowered spells that your party's wizards do, plus can cast more spells per round than everyone in your party combined, and further really can pull off the "Schrödinger's Wizard" business that everyone always complains about on message boards, since it can know as many spells as it wants and still cast them all spontaneously.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Naturally, how many spells does a Beholder Mage 10 know?
    I've always been confused by that.
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    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    Naturally, how many spells does a Beholder Mage 10 know?
    I've always been confused by that.
    All of them. Well, as many as he has the resources to get a hold of.
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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by monty View Post
    All of them. Well, as many as he has the resources to get a hold of.
    If the beholder was just sitting in a cellar, slowly dying to death while it killed rats, how many spells would it have?
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    Wadledo, you dislike EVERYONE. Therefore, you don't count.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonprime View Post
    There's a concept called mercy. Are you familiar with it?
    Thank ya Dr.Bath for your avataring skills.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    If the beholder was just sitting in a cellar, slowly dying to death while it killed rats, how many spells would it have?
    It learns new spells as a wizard, so unless it has access to spells from elsewhere, only 2/level, plus all the cantrips.
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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Beholder Mage is a class designed for DMs who want to kill off their entire party, but don't have the intellectual honesty to just say "Rocks fall everyone dies".
    My party killed a beholder mage. It was challenging, but not impossible.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatbelt View Post
    My party killed a beholder mage. It was challenging, but not impossible.
    My theory is that the Beholder Mage didn't make enough effort to not be killed.
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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by Myrmex View Post
    If you have a weak party, sure. Otherwise it presents an easy and straight forward way to keep up with the party's actions/round with a single monster encounter.
    The Nagahyrda from Serpent Kingdoms can do this too...

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatbelt View Post
    My party killed a beholder mage. It was challenging, but not impossible.
    Did he have casting capabilities equal to your wizards?

    Because, seriously, beholder mages are beyond insane. If your party is spread out in two directions - which is not that unlikely, then with the Agile Tyrant merit, he can unload eight offensive spells in the first round. And he can use the two remaining spellstalks to buff himself.

    Not to mention that a Beholder Mage can take an overpowered prestige class and continue its insane spell progression. A Beholder Mage/IoSTV? BM/Incantatrix? I don't even want to think about it.

    Oh yeah and he has Sorcerer spell progression as far as number of spells go, not the wizard one. He's capable of spontaneously casting any spell from its spell list and has more spells than a focused specialist. From any school.

    Beholder mages are everything that people complain about in wizards, only taken to extremes. Schrödinger's Wizard with the capability to nova like 3-4 mages put together. It doesn't even matter if you take him by surprise, since he can buff himself with 10 spells in the first round. A powerful Time-Stopped beholder could, theoretically, open 8 Gates during the Time Stop. Or just say '**** it' and unload it's entire spell list.

    Let's not comment on what happens when you combine Beholder Mage, Ur-Priest and Mystic Theurge, shall we?
    Last edited by grautry; 2009-04-27 at 10:39 PM.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    ...then with the Agile Tyrant merit...
    I take it that English is not your first language? We call those "feats". Just for future reference.
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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Is figuring this stuff out a thought experiment or something? Because it has no practical use.

    Are there any differences between the Monsters of Faerun and LoM BMs?

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    dying to death
    Um...
    Last edited by Faulty; 2009-04-28 at 12:03 AM.
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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by Amesoeurs View Post
    Um...
    Dying seems to be a pretty big factor in death, generally.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by grautry View Post
    then with the Agile Tyrant merit, he can unload eight offensive spells in the first round.
    Not sure I know what this is. Which means my DM probably doesn't know what it is either...

    [/quote]Not to mention that a Beholder Mage can take an overpowered prestige class and continue its insane spell progression. A Beholder Mage/IoSTV? BM/Incantatrix? I don't even want to think about it.[/quote]

    Those are banned. The DM refuses to even talk about them.


    I don't know the specific stats of the Beholder Mage we killed. I know half the party died. I also know the DM wasn't expecting my character, who is pretty cheesy.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthromancer View Post
    Dying seems to be a pretty big factor in death, generally.
    It could be dying to a beholder tyrant(I think, the undead beholder thingy).
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    Wadledo, you dislike EVERYONE. Therefore, you don't count.
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    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonprime View Post
    There's a concept called mercy. Are you familiar with it?
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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    I take it that English is not your first language? We call those "feats". Just for future reference.
    I also happen to be a WoD player, where a similar mechanic is called "merits".

    Considering that I'm, you know, human, I'm allowed to make mistakes like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatbelt
    Not sure I know what this is. Which means my DM probably doesn't know what it is either...
    It's a feat - as has been mentioned. It's from the Lords of Madness.

    Beholder mages have a little limitation - they can only turn three "eyestalks" in one area - forward/backwards/left/right. Which means, that they can 'only' unload 3 spells into one such area. With the Agile Tyrant feat, you can turn 4.
    Last edited by grautry; 2009-04-28 at 02:25 PM. Reason: I think I sounded a bit harsher than I inteded to.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Considering that I'm, you know, human, I'm allowed to make mistakes like that.
    Oh, certainly, no hard feelings I hope?

    (and really, "merit" is a better name anyway. In normal English, a "feat" is something you have done, not something you can do)
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
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    biggrin Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by grautry View Post
    Considering that I'm, you know, human, I'm allowed to make mistakes like that.
    You know, a Polymorph Any Object could fix that for you.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Remember that the beholder has access to all the same optimization tricks and overpowered spells that your party's wizards do, plus can cast more spells per round than everyone in your party combined, and further really can pull off the "Schrödinger's Wizard" business that everyone always complains about on message boards, since it can know as many spells as it wants and still cast them all spontaneously.
    As a CR 21 or 22 encounter, sure, and if you cheese it out, sure, and if you fail to account for that, sure.

    But at that point, it's little more than one hypothetical construct vs. another, ie, high level wizard duel. Mostly nothing happens, since they both have a bunch of crafted contingencies, and then teleport away to find dragons to beat up and loot.

    Quote Originally Posted by grautry View Post
    A powerful Time-Stopped beholder could, theoretically, open 8 Gates during the Time Stop. Or just say '**** it' and unload it's entire spell list.
    Unless it is doing some Killer Gnome shenanigans, it only gets 1 ninth level eyestalk/round. Using its standard action to cast an ur-priest spell, and a rod of quicken, annnnd something tricky, perhaps 3 gates + timestop?

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by Myrmex View Post
    Unless it is doing some Killer Gnome shenanigans, it only gets 1 ninth level eyestalk/round. Using its standard action to cast an ur-priest spell, and a rod of quicken, annnnd something tricky, perhaps 3 gates + timestop?
    Well no.

    Casting spells from a spellstalk is a free action - and any spellstalk can cast any spell. There are no "levels" of spellstalks as far as I can see in the descriptions.

    And as far as standard actions go - I'm not even sure whether they can cast spells in their standard actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos
    Oh, certainly, no hard feelings I hope?

    (and really, "merit" is a better name anyway. In normal English, a "feat" is something you have done, not something you can do)
    Nope, as I said when I was editing the post, I probably sounded a bit harsher than I intended when I wrote that. And really, you were trying to be helpful, so what could I really be insulted about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane
    You know, a Polymorph Any Object could fix that for you.
    I should probably become a kobold, right?
    Last edited by grautry; 2009-04-29 at 01:13 AM.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by grautry View Post
    Well no.

    Casting spells from a spellstalk is a free action - and any spellstalk can cast any spell. There are no "levels" of spellstalks as far as I can see in the descriptions.
    Beholder Mage in general is kind of poorly written, but it's in there- the line says "from then on, that eyestalk casts spells of that level." Ten levels of spells, ten eyestalks. Each spellstalk is the casting tool for 1 level of spells, so normal casting for a 9th or 10th level Beholder Mage would be 1 spell from every level. Not quite as overwhelming as 10 9th level spells, but there's usually something worth casting (well, maybe not from the cantrips.)

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    Beholder Mage in general is kind of poorly written, but it's in there- the line says "from then on, that eyestalk casts spells of that level." Ten levels of spells, ten eyestalks. Each spellstalk is the casting tool for 1 level of spells, so normal casting for a 9th or 10th level Beholder Mage would be 1 spell from every level. Not quite as overwhelming as 10 9th level spells, but there's usually something worth casting (well, maybe not from the cantrips.)
    Ah, damn. My mistake then.

    Still, even if limited by spell levels, their ability to nova is unparalleled. It's like having a Greater Rod of Quicken with unlimited charges - only better.

    I still wonder how standard action casting works for BM's - that is, whether they can do it at all. The text doesn't seem to support that.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by grautry View Post
    I still wonder how standard action casting works for BM's - that is, whether they can do it at all. The text doesn't seem to support that.
    They can't cast their BM spells. Which is why you Theurge it with Ur-Priest to get spells you can cast with a standard action.

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    Default Re: How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

    Or carry (tongue?) around some scrolls/wands/staves. Or just bite things/whack them with a mouthpick weapon.

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